I can't make much sense of the Patent Office legal document regarding rules. I though someone hear may be able to answer a question:

I read somewhere that in order for something to be patentable it has to have moving parts. Is this correct?

Try this Mike.
European Patent Office
http://www.epo.org/patents/Grant-procedure/About-patents.html

Marvelous - thanks all - the dream is still alive

Mike
Already mentioned above, but to give you an idea of what's already out there, look here http://gb.espacenet.com/search97cgi/s97_cgi.exe?Action=FormGen&Template=gb/en/advanced.hts
and type in a couple of keywords in the abstract box.

If you want to file a patent application, I strongly recommend that you get a patent attorney to write it for you. It will cost, but will be worth it (I would say that, because I am one).

Finally, you can't get a patent if you've already disclosed your idea ( unless in confidence), so don't disclose it on this forum!

Still have this mad idea. Though I'm now at a stage where I have the confidence and finances [I hope!] to actually register a patent.

Can anyone advise on the amount of money I should be paying a patent attourney to handle the process in the UK? I've had a price of £1800 + VAT for the initial application plus further costs of maybe £2500 over 2,3,or 4 years. Seems excessive to me

Anyone?

I don't believe that about the Chinese, Jeremy.

You'll be telling me next that that's how the Japanese leapt ahead so quickly in the technology sector back in the 70s and 80s.

Surely not!

Sometimes trade secrets are preferable to patents.

Rgds

Damon

Or else get to market and enjoy a 6 month clear lead before everyone catches up (if it's that good). But meanwhile you've come up with the next quantum-leap evolution. e.g. Apple - always one good step ahead.

Watch out for fake patent advisors that take money for advice and do little to actually help get a patent.

Perhaps try local office/advisor recommended by..

http://www.ipo.gov.uk

"The Intellectual Property Office is part of the Department for Business, Innovation & Skills"

Is copyright easier?

PS Rule no 2 is "Ensure that your inventions were invented whilst you were self-employed"

The beneficiary of both my patents, one of which was invented by me in my spare time (and the prototype built at home by me during a Christmas holiday) is the Secretary of State for Defence.

Yes , I remember the first one I did. I wasn't living in the UK at the time and there were all sorts of procedures that have to be followed if you are employed (or a Director). Following the rules can be enough to sink the original enterprise if it's an SME.

As a general rule, I wouldn't advise anyone to patent an idea unless the ownership of the idea is very well established right at the start (in the case of government employees, this often means that your ideas belong to the government)

Selling your patented gizmo to one of the big guns who have a chance to fight other big guns is maybe worth a thought?

Agreed. This is often the best course. Though it depends on what the invention is; which you should never say on a public forum until you've filed the patents (and, preferably, after it's been published by the IPO)

Also, anyone else with a view on the costs I mentioned?

Jon, did you file the patent applications yourself? or use an atourney?

Some I use an attorney, others I file myself. It depends on the context.

For example, if you have a series of inventions and your 'first step' invention doesn't cover the whole story, then you can use the patents system as a showcase for the idea (you then have the rest stacked up behind it): The intent here isn't to protect the first step, but the second or third stages. So, if you know how to file a patent, the total cost is in the region of £300 to get a UK 'showcase' filing. US filings are also cheap. Europe-wide filings are very expensive and world-wide is exorbitant.

US filings are good but you have to be 'first to invent' not 'first to file'. If it can retrospectively be shown that someone else had previously done what you're thinking of, the US patent can be invalidated. Not so with UK patents: All you have to establish is that people who are reasonably expert in the field (at the time you file) do not think it is obvious. Even better, if you can get experts in the field to tell you that your idea is unlikely to have ever been done in the past after filing your patents and before it is taken to grant, you've more or less clinched the deal. The period between filing and the examination for grant of rights is usually about two years.

However, if someone finds a published document, published prior to the filing date, and this also shows that your patent/method had been done prior to the date of filing, that's also the end of your UK patent.

But another thing you can do is to file yourself and then get an attorney to tidy up the claims later. I would not recommend doing this unless you are seriously familiar with the system.

If your invention is a one-off then you probably should use an attorney. But it depends on the context and you can't tell anyone that without getting a CA established or having some other way of having a 'reasonable expectation' that they would treat it confidentially (knowing that you intend to patent it).

If you use an Attorney to get a UK patent, then £1800 sounds cheap (my attorney charges £200 an hour). Filing costs will probably be additional and if you decide to go for a PCT filing, they will become a very large cost.

I hope this helps a little. The trouble with general sweeping statements like the above is that there are always some odd-ball situations where the above might be wrong.

This page should probably be your first port of call:
http://www.ipo.gov.uk/types/patent/p-about.htm

Jon