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Housing - Renovation: 1930s terraced house retrofit

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  1.  
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeAug 20th 2011 edited
     
    Hi there, (questions at bottom) I'm new to the forum so I thought I'd introduce myself and our new project. Myself and two like-minded good friends have just bought our first home together, which we intend to live in and retrofit.

    What we've bought:

    • 1930s 3-bedroom middle terrace ex-council house in London

    • 210 sq. metre garden

    • It's had little to nothing done to it since the previous owner moved in in the 30s

    • Gas heater in living room, no central heating, immersion heater (I think)

    • Single-glazed aluminium windows

    • Tiled, pitched cold roof, insulated loft

    • Solid walls, to be confirmed

    • Concrete ground floor, timber 1st floor

    • Cold winter ahead of us


    Renovation plans:
    Initial budget: £30000 + £10000 as we save it

    Main goals:

    • Live in it.

    • DIY, taking our time and learning as much as possible (benefited by the fact that I'm an architectural technician and my father is a builder, although he lives on the other side of the world).

    • Create a comfortable, healthy home with low energy bills, reduced CO2 emissions and reduced water usage.

    • Increase value of property

    • Produce some of our own food


    Initial design proposals, in order of sequence:

    • Storage for 3 bikes to front garden

    • New windows, GRP or timber/aluminium composite

    • Insulate walls, perhaps externally (not in conservation area)

    • Loft conversion = bedroom + en suite

    • Convert smallest bedroom on first floor into new bathroom

    • New kitchen and maybe change ground level to open plan, and possible ground level glazed extension to rear

    • Water conservation fittings throughout

    • Ventilation: Probably whole house ventilation with heat recovery

    • Increase air-tightness

    • Heating system: New condensing gas boiler supplemented by solar thermal panels and wood burning fire perhaps with wetback/back boiler (perhaps masonry fire). Underfloor heating to ground floor and perhaps upper floors.

    • Small amount of photo voltaics


    Other possibilities:

    • Rainwater harvesting, with gravity-fed system for flushing toilets and external water butt for garden.

    • Greywater recycling


    Couple questions:

    • Heating system: Is it possible to combine gas boiler, wood burning fire with water heating and solar thermal panels? Any drawbacks?

    • Insulating externally: How does this work when you're part of a terrace, as our walls would then stick out beyond the neighbours? Is this possible?



    Any broad suggestions, things to think about? Books to get? Websites to use?

    Edit:
    This is our blog: http://idyllonthea406.org.uk
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeAug 20th 2011
     
    Everything is possible! party wall act will be biggest problem, tell neighbours what you propose now

    EWI will be best and it is possible to cap it on boundary line, may need to mitigate the resulting thermal bridge with a tiny bit of internal insulation

    decide on target U-values ideally 0.1, glazed extension unheated and outside insulation barrier

    insulate, insulate, insulate air seal and whole house ventilation all great

    pv before next March, grey water recycling is may be not worth it?

    it is possible to combine several heat sources

    floor insulation -- consider fully filling with eps
    • CommentAuthorjamesingram
    • CommentTimeAug 20th 2011 edited
     
    quick answers
    1. yes, draw backs , possible over complex, costly
    2. yes, stick out beyond , but not really a problem , 100mm+ ( phenolic/ EPS /woodfibre) , depends on how much you want ot stick on , what level of insulation your trying to achieve
    you'll lose heat at the point were it joins the neighbours wall , but no way round this unless you can get them to
    go for it also.
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeAug 20th 2011
     
    Thanks Tony, good to hear it's all possible, including the external insulation.

    With regard to PV before March, you're right, I forgot about that. We'll have to move it up the sequence unfortunately, which will give us less time to plan it in with the solar thermal and loft conversion and less budget for more important stuff initially. Guess the best place for it will be the roof facing the front of the property, which is East facing. Around 20-30 degrees.
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeAug 20th 2011
     
    The other way we could go with the wood burning fire is to use as a fire only and not a water heater. The main purpose of it is to add a bit of romance really. Would be nice to heat some water too, but not essential.
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeAug 20th 2011 edited
     
    Posted By: jamesingramquick answers you'll lose heat at the point were it joins the neighbours wall , but no way round this unless you can get them to go for it also.

    I assume this could be a problem area for condensation too?
    • CommentAuthorjamesingram
    • CommentTimeAug 20th 2011 edited
     
    How about a rewire , usually first on the list when renovating.
    I've a similar end of terrace (1960) http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/forum114/comments.php?DiscussionID=6234&page=1#Item_26
    quick fixs before winter if you not converting loft straight away, fill it will cheap insulation £100 will do it from the DIY sheds
    We fitted a wood burner in the lounge ( central fire place, small 4kW , no vent required ,no back boiler) for similar reason , it can be fairly argued that they create polution in the local environment, and are a luxury item
    i'd be tempted to stick with just gas boiler and solar thermal for HW. though return on investment/energy saved with solar thermal ( ST) is low unless you DIY.

    Get your drawings done and do the loft asap , then PV , leave space for ST if you want, this will let you work you way down and out , you may have to beef up the rafters , joist and this may effect PV and EWI if you do this prior to loft.
    • CommentAuthorjamesingram
    • CommentTimeAug 20th 2011 edited
     
    Posted By: Shevek
    Posted By: jamesingramquick answers you'll lose heat at the point were it joins the neighbours wall , but no way round this unless you can get them to go for it also.

    I assume this could be a problem area for condensation too?


    you could internal insulate as Tony suggested , I'd of thought there not much condensation risk , just heat passing into the party wall and out .
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeAug 20th 2011 edited
     
    Posted By: jamesingramHow about a rewire , usually first on the list when renovating.

    True, we have discussed this and I should have listed it. It's just that it's gone on the back burner a little since we tested the current sockets and they're fine. So thinking we'll rewire when we shift some of the 1st floor walls about.

    it can be fairly argued that they create polution in the local environment

    What sort wood burners should we be looking at to minimise emissions?
    • CommentAuthorjamesingram
    • CommentTimeAug 20th 2011 edited
     
    Might well have been rewired , what sort of cable is it ?
    They do more expensive efficient wood burners , but I think were there's smoke there's polution , no way round that. Perhaps you could get a flueless gas flame effect fire ? no heatloss up chimney/flue , less particle polution from gas. I have a wood burner mainly because I want one, I see it as a luxury item (also lots of free wood)
    20-30 pitch, on a 3 bed terrace doesn't sound like much room for a loft conversion . I've similar, wall to wall span 6-7m, so ruled it out as the space created I wouldn't be able to stand up straight anywhere,. Decided to go for storage , which were short of in the upstairs , also plan to stick solar HW tank up there.
    • CommentAuthortiimjp1
    • CommentTimeAug 20th 2011
     
    Masonry heaters are the most efficient wood burners, providing high output, ease of operation and very low emmissions, suitable for smoke free zones. Water heating can be provided. More expensive to install but added romance ;) and low running costs.
    • CommentAuthorjamesingram
    • CommentTimeAug 20th 2011 edited
     
    masonry heater ? in a 3 bed terrace with mains gas ?
    Mind you i was thinking of sticking a load of bricks out of old electricial storage heaters round my little wood burner, guess thats just a low budget version of a masonry heater.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeAug 20th 2011
     
    If necessary you can drop the first floor ceilings to create more headroom and space in the loft, I have done this lots of times and it has many benefits if lots of work is going on anyway.
  14.  
    Yes , done it for a customer once , but it does depend on your existing ff ceiling height also.
    Pushing it below 2.2m ( giving 200mm for loft floor joists from 2.4m existing ) and it gets a bit cave like.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeAug 21st 2011
     
    Does the roof need much work? If so then consider this first and think about incorporating some PV and ST if suitable. Consider a warm roof if the budget can extend that far.

    Failing that then fix what draughts you can and fill the roof with insulation.

    I dropped the ceilings in my old terrace and put the kitchen in the front, rather than the horrible narrow galley one out the back.

    If you have 1930's wiring (which I doubt) you will need to re-wire as it will be the old 5 amp. You may need to rewire anyway if the PV installer condemns it, which is possible (and they HAVE to do if dangerous).

    As that will have use up this years budget, buy a fork and start getting the garden ready.

    Good luck with it and set up a website/blog/tweet or what every people call a scrapbook now, always fun seeing others projects.
    • CommentAuthorwookey
    • CommentTimeAug 24th 2011
     
    Your list of stuff looks excellent. I see nothing to disagree with. Tick VG particularly for external insulation, airtightness, solar thermal and DIY approach. It'll keep you busy for a while :-)

    I've got solar thermal + gas backup for DHW and separate woodburner for heating and it works very well. You can add woodburner back-boiler to that but there are arguments against too. Small, relatively simple woodburners (which are ideal for well-insulated building) do not work well with backboilers - it reduces efficiency and increases emissions (and BrianW will be down on you like a ton of very repettitve bricks). To do it properly really needs a much more expensive woodburner (3 grand rather than 500 quid sort of thing). On then other hand solar thermal + woodburner for DHW go together very well. It's a tricky one. With a limited budget I'd be inclined to skip the back-boiler. Woodburners + MVHR are also awkward. Getting a room-sealed one is best.

    Don't forget floor insulation.
    • CommentAuthorTimSmall
    • CommentTimeAug 25th 2011
     
    +1 for no-back-boiler on the wood stove - I have one and it's rubbish. For the project which I'm just about to embark on (similar stuff to you, but on a 1920s Semi), I'm just going for the highest efficiency, room-sealed wood stove that I can.

    Don't rush the solar thermal if it means that you're not going to do it right - the Navitron forums are an excellent knowledge source for solar.

    Don't go for an open fire - they rob the room of more heat than they ever produce. Put rain caps on disused flues, and block them up internally as much as possible (or take them out - get you a bit more space).

    If there's a scheme like this locally:

    http://ecoopenhouses.org/houses2011/index.html

    then go on it, get some ideas, and have a chat with current owners (tho' bare in mind that few people like to admit that they wasted money and/or did something daft!).

    Perhaps do a you tube search for "retrofit for the future" - there's a lot of non technical stuff there, but also some good technical ones.

    Sounds good overall!

    HTH,

    Tim.
  18.  
    Maybe visit one of the many Superhomes – September Openings 2011 in conjunction with Heritage Open days and Open House London weekend – Thursday 8th to Sunday 25th September.
    //www.superhomes.org.uk/get-inspired/superhome-locator - for ideas.
    -
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeFeb 17th 2013 edited
     
    We have a blog if anyone's interested:
    http://idyllonthea406.org.uk

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