I see you mention noise data, if noise is an issue your neighbour should check out the Aircon 10 very quiet for us. There are lots to choose from and balancing all the pro's and con's is a real headache. it would be good if the MCS site was clearer with the data to make comparisons easier,but I guess it comes down to the age old adage "horses for courses". It seems generally acknowledged that the Gaia's take some beating but they are quite clear in all their literature about the Turbine being designed for moderate wind areas what that equates to in speed I have no idea, I have heard that there are none in the Orkney's due to their high winds, but their are lots here in Cornwall and we are not short of wind.

Posted By: candlemakerI see you mention noise data, if noise is an issue your neighbour should check out the Aircon 10 very quiet for us.

Thanks for the pointer.

When it comes to noise data you only really need to know one thing - the noise level as experienced from the turbine by your neighbour. The MCS data should show a pictogram with noise levels in various wind speeds at distance.

I had to submit a noise assessment as part of my planning appl, not figures from Gaia but measured noise levels from around my farm, day and night, in various wind speeds then I had to theoretically predict the noise from the turbine onto the measured background as experienced by the "nearest noise sensitive property". Luckily my wife used to be a member of the Institute of Acoustics so we did it in house but it basically showed ;
1.that the windier it became the higher the background noise level (without the turbine) so that over 4m/s the wind noise was the background noise.
2. the periods having the lowest background noise were those with no wind and so the turbine would not be working anyway. No wind background was 27dB(A) day or night, 5m/s wind background was 45dB(A).
3. when turbine was working the noise from it would always be more than 10dB(A) below the background noise level as experience by the nearest neighbour = turbine inaudible.
4. Turbine was considerably quieter than the diesel generator we used to use during lambing!

In real life, the turbine is most noticeable when it is about 3m/s wind and just generating. This happens to be when the wind isn't strong enough to contribute to the background noise but you still can't hear the turbine at the neighbours. It's clearly audible outside our house just 150m away. I wouldn't want to put one less than 300m from a neighbouring property (dwelling) though. You'll be asking for trouble.

Just so there is no confusion

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/jon-naylor/19/7a0/610

Would this be you Jon

Hi I'm looking for a 6kw turbine and i have looked at the C&F one but see that c&f have mixed reviews. I have also looked at the kingspan 6kw who bought over proven it seems less technical than the C&F and is cheaper has anyone had any dealings with the kingspan 6kw turbine is it a class 1 and what class is C&F?

Steamy, Ted: :)

I have a 6kW Proven, but I have no idea what changes Kingspan may have made.

Re: NjordWind post!

I just wanted to add my two pence worth with regards to the blog above which is clearly written by a SIAC (Bergey) salesman! I can call myself an owner of an Xzeres turbine so I guess I’m biased on the basis, but I researched the market and believe I made a best decision.

My replies are based on my own original research and feedback from both installer and Xzeres at the time;

• They are now springing up all over the UK imported and distributed by SIAC Wind Energy

When I researched UK installations to judge the manufacturer’s footprint in the UK I didn’t find a single Bergey, I’ve stayed a turbine enthusiast since my installation and have seen their name and turbines popping up very frequently.

• Probably the best accolade is that one of their installation contractors with many years of experience of installing Gaia, Evoco, Proven etc liked the Bergey so much he bought one and installed it for himself.

That’s commendable support of his own decision to market Bergey but surely not the ‘best’ accolade. Now if Bergey was being sold by every man and his dog because it was the best turbine there is (which it isn’t) I’d be impressed – But with only SIAC selling them – or not - I’m certain I made the right choice!

• Bergey have an annual turnover of around $10 million

I personally wouldn’t recommend basing a decision on company turnover, published or rumoured, but rather on the ROI of the product. The simple fact is that Xzeres will out-perform the Bergey all day long.

• In comparison Xzeres have put up 200-300 units in the three years since they bought ARE out of bankruptcy three years ago.

I looked at Xzeres with regard to ARE’s financial and company history and found that there is no direct link in performance other than that the Xzeres saw an opportunity to better market a product than ARE did. I found Xzeres are growing fast, globally; this is based upon financials that they are required to publish as a list business.

• Anybody looking for a “fit and forget” solution should take a look at the Bergey with its ten year warranty and simple visual inspection schedule once every two years.

Based on the assessment above, then Xzeres are a ‘fit and forget solution’, the Xzeres turbine was attractive to me because it has only two moving parts, efficient design and only require maintenance every 3 years, the cost of which is included in the upfront costs, Oh, and I have their 10 year warrantee, which includes parts and labour.

• Their most recent published accounts show a considerable loss


I’m sticking to my personal view, based on my research, I found Xzeres is financed on share capital, owned by many private individuals who believe in them and renewables. Their financials are published, turnover was growing when I was researching, and since checking back I can see they continue to grow and will reach profitability this year.

I admitted I’m biased, based on being very happy with my investment, but couldn’t pass up the chance to defend my decision and challenge anyone to prove me wrong!

I was wrong about westwind, turbines are fine it was the fact that the warranty was with Shetland Windpower and when they were bought out the warranty didn't stand so a few ppl sent them back to the factory to get checked over.

Latest on c&f is that the 4 inverters on the 20kW are now being scraped and replaced by 2 larger inverters!! 20kW mcs similar to the expected output of the 15kW.

A worry for all resellers is that planning is going in house within the next few months so mint, Ecodyn , mathers , envico, British Eco your days are numbered. !! Well maybe not mint energy as c&f already own a share in it!!!

Your right but the point I'm making is that C&F will eventually take everything in-house so what is the point in being a re-seller for them that's all!!

I'm sure a lot of turbines need tweeking for the first few days..... but a 20KW turbine in 7.5m/s producing 47,500kWh is less than a Gaia. You pays your money and takes your choice.

BUT They probably won't be C&F resellers anymore!

I was interested to see a chap not too far from me - he had planning for 2 Proven 35s just before they went under. He's now got 2 Gaias (with the correct amended planning consent). As I've said before; it's too much money to risk on an untested product - difficult for a manufacturer to break into a market but that shouldn't be the customers concern.
It also shows up a problem with the FITs- rushing headlong to get the deadline for payment window rather than a well thought through development programme.

Yes, St11ckj I think you are right.

This is picked up from the farmers' forum: C&F MCS data:

http://cleanpowersolutions.co.uk/downloads/CF15%20Power%20Performance%20extract.pdf
and
http://cleanpowersolutions.co.uk/downloads/CF20%20Power%20Performance%20extract.pdf

10.3 m/s to get the full 15 kWh for the CF15 and 10 m/s for the CF20. Luckily I am in a windy site!

I don't know about the Eoltec specifically but all small wind turbines should be in the order of £5,000 per kW capacity - so a 10kW machine will be around £50,000. Plus or minus 10%.

I would suggest you need to start at the other end and find out what size turbine your DNO will allow you to connect with and without grid reinforcement and the costs associated with that. Do you have single or three phase on site? You might have zero connection costs for a 6kW single phase but maybe £25,000 extra for a 11kW 3 phase or vice versa.

Then you can start looking at the range of turbines available that fit in with that. The costs of foundations will vary from one turbine to another as their size will depend on turbine weight and tower height. Your location will have an impact on delivery charges as well.

What I'm saying is that you need a fairly detailed project plan before you can get detailed costs and understand the feasibility of each option.