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    • CommentAuthorJoiner
    • CommentTimeJun 23rd 2012 edited
     
    We have VERY large sash windows and the meeting rails are 2200mm off the floor. They're a pain to operate even for me. Now that's not a serious problem in the main part of the house because the windows don't get opened that much, but the bathroom windows do.

    Having completely refurbed it I'm about to refit the large bathroom window and plan to seal the bottom sash closed, because who wants passers-by to see into their bathroom? but leave the top sash operating, using a similar idea to the old Cambridge fastener which operated on a series of pulleys.

    My idea is simpler. Run a looped cord through a pulley located in the head of the sash frame and run it to an eye on the glazing bar of the top sash where the cord will be fixed, down to another eye on the bottom sash through which the cord will run free, allowing you to open or shut the window with the cord.

    Anyone aware of any convenient joining thingy that would make a neater job than just melting the ends of a length of nylon sash cord together?

    (I saw something almost identical, well the traces of such a system, on an extremely old sash window I once worked on, but that worked with a single cord because the window had no balance weights, the bottom sash was fixed and, because there was no parting bead, the top sash ran against it. The cord carried the whole weight of the top sash once its catch was released. Must have been fun if you lost your grip!)
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeJun 24th 2012
     
    How about some heat shrink sleeving? eg Melt the ends together to join them and slide a bit of heat shrink over join the join to hide it.

    Would melting the ends together be strong enough?
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeJun 24th 2012 edited
     
    Figure of eight knot, works for me when climbing, told a couple of stop knots work too. :wink:
      Knots.jpg
    • CommentAuthorJoiner
    • CommentTimeJun 24th 2012
     
    Thanks Nick, but I was thinking of something a bit more elegant!

    Not a bad idea, Colin. I'll have a word with an electrician mate and see what he's got in his workshop.

    The join will be somewhere near the top of the sash anyway and as the window opening will be restricted with Ventlocks the likelihood of the join being too visible is low due to the consequent restricted travel of the cord.

    As to a melted joint being strong enough - as the sash is perfectly balanced and moves with a single finger frictional resistance shouldn't be an issue, he says! :smoking:
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeJun 24th 2012
     
    Picking up on Colin's idea how about ferrule crimps, the sort used for wire rope. They are usually used for crimping two ropes side by side but end crimping may be a possibility with a longer crimp. Alternatively, possibly use rope instead of woven cord and then you could do an "end splice".

    Mike
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeJun 24th 2012
     
    Just had an idea, how about a bit of 10mm copper pipe, say 50mm long, split lengthways and then crimped. Do your end melting bit first,- belt and braces.

    Mike
    • CommentAuthorJoiner
    • CommentTimeJun 24th 2012
     
    Ha ha. Mike, you're as industrial as Steamy!

    Had considered an end splice, but I simply don't have the skill to make a good enough job of it, certainly not good enough to have any kind of guarantee that it wouldn't come apart with dire consequences when SWMBO's using it.

    I rather like Cwatter's idea of a shrink-sleeve because it will assume the outline of the cord's weave.

    Thanks for all the entries though. :bigsmile:
  1.  
    Not sure if applicable here, but there's been a series of fatal accidents where kids put their heads through the looped cords you get on roller blinds.

    The daycare nurseries are handing out advice to cut these loops and just have two dangling ends, but you can also get safe-break couplings that will normally hold the loop closed but break under the weight of a child, I got some on ebay for 25p each (I think) from a roller blind repair co.

    I dont know enough about sash windows to tell if this is relevent to the OP, but incase anyone has roller blinds.
    • CommentAuthorJoiner
    • CommentTimeJun 24th 2012
     
    Don't know where you can get those safe-break couplings now, Will. Ebay certainly doesn't have any and googling for them just pulls up items for safe caravanning!
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeJun 24th 2012
     
    What dia. cord?
    • CommentAuthorJoiner
    • CommentTimeJun 24th 2012
     
    Ha ha. Never, ever, had to measure the stuff so wouldn't know off the top of my head.

    OK, just climbed up to the window in here. It's standard pre-stretched nylon sash cord @ 6mm.

    What have you discovered?
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeJun 25th 2012
     
    I have some heat shrink tube lying around in the workshop, can't remember the sizes though, I'll have a dig around, sods law says it'll be out of its original wrapper and I'll have to find the invoice to see what I ordered. It's the shrinkage ratios that are critical.
  2.  
    I lost the ebay link , it was this kind of thing but cant remember exactly who it was I got them from http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_kw=blind+chain+break+connector

    No good for 6mm cord tho!

    There is a lot of tips on the ROSPA website about toddler deaths and window cords, http://www.rospa.com/about/currentcampaigns/blindcords/

    Contrary to my other post, they dont recommend cutting cord loops
    "It is hoped that a voluntary agreement among manufacturers and retailers will eventually see an end to looped blind cords altogether. In the meantime it is essential that they are fitted with some form of safety device such as a chain/cord-break connector, chain/cord tidy or cleat."
    "RoSPA does not recommend that cords are cut, even as a short-term solution. It is advisable that any action taken on the blind cord is a permanent one which will take the cord out of reach of children. "
    • CommentAuthorJoiner
    • CommentTimeJun 25th 2012
     
    @owlman - Thanks Mike. It'll help to know what I'm supposed to be asking for.

    @Will - Had actually considered that kind of 'chain', used on our bedroom window blinds, but it wouldn't take the strain of that first pull to free the sash from the overnight grip of the draught-strip on the top parting bead (which a lot of sash windows don't have).

    Can't believe I can't find something along the lines of an inline connector for steel cable, which (in stainless steel) could also act as something for my wife's tiny hands to grip (settle down, boys) and at least LOOK like it was meant to be there to serve some function. Trouble is, even when putting the 'UK only' filter on the search you still get mostly US sites! :devil:
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeJun 25th 2012
     
    Not quite what your after, but they may know:
    http://www.savacable.com/pages/prod_02_04.html
    • CommentAuthorskyewright
    • CommentTimeJun 25th 2012 edited
     
    Posted By: JoinerCan't believe I can't find something along the lines of an inline connector for steel cable

    Have you come across hollow rope?
    Not exactly a subtle colour but I got some of this:
    http://www.screwfix.com/p/hollow-braided-pp-rope-yellow-9-5mm-x-30-5m/80489
    from Screwfix a few years ago.

    I've not tried end to end splicing to form a loop/sling and I've certainly not tried it for your application, but forming a neat eye splice is simplicity itself. Essentially you use the 'fid' that comes with the rope (or at least did so back then) to feed a length of rope into and then along the middle the hollow rope. The more you pull on the rope the tighter the length down the middle is grabbed by the outer. I hope that makes sense...
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeJun 25th 2012
     
    Found it Joiner; two types 12.7mm and 9.5mm in clear, both with a 3:1 max shrink ratio. I can't vouch for the strength when under tension, so you may have to double up on the join. Whisper me your address and I'll mail you a bit of each to play around with.

    Mike
    • CommentAuthorJoiner
    • CommentTimeJun 25th 2012
     
    Good man, Mike. Will do immediately.

    Strength isn't/shouldn't be an issue because the sleeve is just to tidy up the look and support the 'weld'.

    :whorship:
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeJun 25th 2012
     
    My pleasure, done!:bigsmile:
    • CommentAuthorJoiner
    • CommentTimeJun 25th 2012
     
    Appreciated.

    Got it all back in by tea time. Cleared my tools away and hoovered around and went up to the workshop to tidy the stuff away. Returned to find the wife had replaced all the "little bits" that sit around the place.

    "I'm Zinzering in here tomorrow!"

    'Then I'll move it tomorrow.'

    :devil:
    • CommentAuthorCliff Pope
    • CommentTimeJun 26th 2012 edited
     
    You could make a large grommet.
    A grommet is formed by carefully unlaying a length of traditional 3-strand rope and then re-laying one of the strands into a continuous ring, tucking the ends in as in a splice.

    To avoid waste you could use all three strands, staggering the ends around the circumference of the final loop.
    There would be no ends, no join, just continuous rope.
    • CommentAuthorJoiner
    • CommentTimeJun 26th 2012
     
    The "beauty" of using the pre-stretched nylon sash cord is that you undo the strands for about 1/2" and ease them together so that they're evenly distributed. Apply the flame from a ciggy lighter and quickly roll the joint (no Steamy, not THAT kind of joint) between your fingers, which will hold the joint together. Then apply more heat and melt the fibres together into a smooth joint, again rolling it between your fingers.

    THEN you can scream with the pain. But not if you're a big tough blokey kind of guy - or gal!

    (And thanks, Mike, they arrived this morning. Will try it all out tomorrow. :thumbup:)
    • CommentAuthorJonti
    • CommentTimeJun 26th 2012
     
    You could just use a small rotary hand winch. Takes all the strain, even tension.
    • CommentAuthorJoiner
    • CommentTimeJun 27th 2012
     
    Actually tried the shrink sleeves Mike and they work a treat. Trouble is, you can still see the melted joint in the cord. The sleeve looks fine, the joint looks like a melted piece of nylon sash cord!

    Went into the local small hardware shop, the type where you expect to see Ronnie Barker behind the counter, which sells everything the larger sheds no longer consider anyone wants, and he gave me the type of quizzical look that has you looking over your shoulder in the hope that he's got his eye on someone else. Without a word he beckoned me to follow him.

    "Is this the only window you're working on?"

    'Two more to do.'

    "Same situation?"

    'Probably.'

    "So you're going to have to do this three times?"

    'Er, probably.' (Said whilst desperately trying to guess where he was going with this to forestall the eventual moment when I just KNOW I'm going to feel a total prat.)

    He reached up on the shelf of massed bits of brass and handed me three shrink-wrapped cards each containing a small brass loop. He then reached up and handed me another shrink-wrapped card containing a pole hook.

    "Now you go and ask my daughter there to find you a pole to fit that."

    http://www.screwfix.com/p/fanlight-pole-hook-polished-brass/59496

    http://www.screwfix.com/p/broom-handles-pack-of-5/35287;jsessionid=Xx8tPqqWcCxbBxqGMmBzNp8PGTbq0dvVpxvvcvBn2TqvDyLp1G2D!954539614

    (Can't find the brass 'eye'.)

    All high-tech stuff!!! :shamed:
    •  
      CommentAuthorjoe90
    • CommentTimeJun 27th 2012
     
    Joiner, Your say:-
    run it to an eye on the glazing bar of the top sash where the cord will be fixed,

    Could you not fix the join in the cord to the glazing bar with a cover piece of brass tube? it would look like a continuous loop and the join would be covered?
    • CommentAuthorJoiner
    • CommentTimeJun 27th 2012
     
    Joe, it's sorted now.

    Really appreciate the inputs and incredibly impressed with Mike's (owlman) generosity in sending me the shrink sleeves to try. (If you want the remnants back, Mike, just let me know. :bigsmile:)
    • CommentAuthorskyewright
    • CommentTimeJun 27th 2012
     
    Posted By: Joiner(Can't find the brass 'eye'.)

    I realised that this is sorted, and I can't point to a brass 'eye', but maybe a brass sash handle would have been enough for the fanlight hook hook to pull/push?

    http://www.screwfix.com/p/sash-handle-polished-brass-pack-of-5/54422

    I've never used one with a sash, but I have found them handy for lots of other little jobs that need a small handle. :bigsmile:
    • CommentAuthorJoiner
    • CommentTimeJun 27th 2012
     
    The "brass eye" is a ring pull!! Doh. :shamed:
    • CommentAuthorDavipon
    • CommentTimeJun 30th 2012
     
    Joiner when you said:
    "Went into the local small hardware shop, the type where you expect to see Ronnie Barker behind the counter,"
    I fully expected the "Four candles" sketch:bigsmile:
    • CommentAuthorJoiner
    • CommentTimeJun 30th 2012
     
    Ha ha. He's a bit younger than that, but having taken over from his father he's very much of the same Black Country ilk.
   
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