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- CommentAuthorpeterlukejenkins
- CommentTimeJul 2nd 2012
I'm specifying some Hardwood External doorsets for a housing project and, after having some issues with a recent project re: clear openings for Part M, wanted to be sure the doors and frames were thoroughly thought through.
In my thoroughness I'm now very confused (!) as to how the stock frames available (2067 x 854mm, 2118 x 905mm, 2067 x 930mm, 2168 x 960mm, 2220 x 1007mm) work with brick coordinating sizes - they seem to always sit 1/4 way through bricks, never a clean opening. These aren't checked openings, just normal metric brick.
Am I missing something obvious? -
- CommentAuthorCWatters
- CommentTimeJul 2nd 2012 edited
This blog shows how it works for 826mm doors...
http://blog.konstrukshon.com/architectural-technologist-door-set-and-fitting/its a general note to say just what the structural open size will be, I always use a system that has stood mw well over the years, that is to use 7mm grounds on either side, 32mm thick door jambs and 3mm for the door gap, this adds up to a 910mm opening size for a 826mm door.
Next we need to look at brick sizes it just so happens that 4 stretcher bricks (215+10) plus an extra joint = 910
Next wider is an opening four and a half bricks wide. That would have full stretcher brick one side and header/half brick the other. I make that around 4*(215+10) + 102.5 + 10 = 1012.5 ish .
If frams same size then perhaps..
930 +14 + 64 + 3 = 1011mm -
- CommentAuthortony
- CommentTimeJul 2nd 2012
Building regs has something to say on this -- access for those with limited mobility into all new buildings probably NHBC too -
- CommentAuthorpeterlukejenkins
- CommentTimeJul 3rd 2012 edited
Thanks CWatter, I've come across that blog before but I think perhaps I haven't explained clearly enough - the sizes I've listed are the FRAME sizes, not the door sizes. Also, the blog seems to refer to internal doors (w. 32mm liners), which are a little different in that they normally come with metric size options - external doors all seem to be imperial.
For example, the 2067 x 930mm frame takes a 1981 x 838 door. So, width wise, we would have 930 + 14 = 944.
The nearest coordinating (CO+) brick opening size is 1022.5mm (you have to add 10mm in an opening for the extra "unbuilt" joint)
Tony - thanks for your comment too, I am familiar with the BR requirements, the questionm in essence, is more about how stock imperial doors are supposed to fit in metric brick openings.
Any other thoughts anyone? -
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CommentAuthorfostertom
- CommentTimeJul 3rd 2012
Posted By: peterlukejenkinsyou have to add 20mm in an opening for the extra "unbuilt" joint
I think that's a typo - 10 actually - you only add one joint width.
Brickies would build a nom 4-brick opening i.e. (4 x 225) + 10 = 910 but stretch it a bit to fit the 930 frame, usually in place and built-in as the brickwork rises. Alternatively, if behind 'check' reveals, they'd shrink the opening from 910 nom to say 890, giving 20mm checks - good enough! In that light, 930 is a good, adaptable dimension. Height-wise, they'd get the frame top right, and cut bricks as nec under the cill. -
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- CommentAuthorpeterlukejenkins
- CommentTimeJul 3rd 2012
Yes 10mm sorry(!)
Thanks for your insight to how it works on site. Does this mean my careful brick coordination dimensioning becomes a bit meaningless?
For example, the floor plan will show set-out dims of 910mm, but the door schedule will list a S/O of 930mm? Is there really any point marking out brick dims, or should I just be leaving it to the builder to stretch-fit as necessary?
In previous projects I've not bothered with brick dimensions so I assume the builders have just stretched things, but now the developer is asking for more detail/accuracy, I assume because they want flemish bond, so they think the brick set out will be more critical... -
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CommentAuthorfostertom
- CommentTimeJul 3rd 2012 edited
Posted By: peterlukejenkinsflemish bond
Wow, you'll have to keep track of the running dimension v carefully! doesn't that mean you have quarter bricks as well, to contend with?
I'd work it out to strict brick module, then see how you have to stretch/shrink individual panels/openings. Stretch an opening and you have to decide which (or both) adjoining panels you deduct from. Draw/dimension your result - brickies should know the modularised dimensions by heart, see where your diverge from that, and so see where the stretches and shrinks are. Hopefully!
I suppose you could dual-dimension it - a) theoretical/modularised b) as diverged - you could even dimension the reqd divergence at ea jamb! -
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- CommentAuthorpeterlukejenkins
- CommentTimeJul 3rd 2012
Yes 1/4 and 3/4 bricks at openings/ends, but generally the coordination is still the same.
Maybe I can just specify bespoke doors to avoid the opening issues!
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