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  1.  
    I have a sound concrete floor. If I glued high density EPS to this with EWI adhesive could I then fix floor tiles to the EPS with flexible flooring tile adhesive – or would the tiles crack and lift up in a short time. The aim is to maximise insulation with minimum increase in thickness. If the above is not feasible how do you tile on top of floor insulation.
  2.  
    You will at least need a decoupling membrane like Schluter's Ditra - otherwise your tiles will most definitely crack. I'm not convinced that EPS is a solid enough substrate to prevent deflection.

    Paul in Montreal.
    •  
      CommentAuthorJSHarris
    • CommentTimeJul 14th 2012
     
    This is, perhaps, going to sound a little odd, but I've had a lot of experience in making aircraft, and more recently boat parts, from XPS (high density extruded polystyrene foam). You can make very strong structures from XPS, if you clad it with a thin layer of glass fibre woven cloth, laid up with epoxy resin.

    If you are really stuck for height, then I'd suggest this may be a way to get a very rigid, tough and watertight surface on top of the foam, with less than 1 mm height build up. I'd suggest one, or maybe two, layers of 300 g/m² plain woven cloth, wet out with the cheapest epoxy resin (must be solvent-free epoxy, polyester or vinylester will attack the foam) that you can find. The resin can be easily applied with a roller.

    The resulting floor would be plenty tough enough to walk on even without the tiles, and the laminate would positively prevent any tile movement that might cause cracking.

    The only downside would be the cost, epoxy resin isn't that cheap and you'd need roughly the same weight of resin as glass cloth (perhaps a little more if you're new to laminating with this stuff.
  3.  
    Isn't that Marmox without the effort?
    •  
      CommentAuthorJSHarris
    • CommentTimeJul 14th 2012
     
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: PeterStarck</cite>Isn't that Marmox without the effort?</blockquote>

    Yes, it'd be similar, but Marmox is coated on both sides (not really needed for a flooring application on a rigid base like this) and you still have the potential problem with joints between the boards. Laying the foam on the floor, then covering it with epoxy/glass, would bond the whole floor together into a single waterproof sheet, which might be beneficial.
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeJul 14th 2012
     
    Perhaps Marmox's Soundboard instead?
    http://www.marmox.co.uk/products/marmox-sound-reduction-board

    Or perhaps you could go with timber floor instead of tiling, straight on XPS?
    • CommentAuthorTimber
    • CommentTimeJul 14th 2012
     
    Fibre glass matting and cloth ontop of the EPS/XPS does should sort of appealing. I too have experienced the strength of fg/foam composite radio controlled 'planes.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeJul 15th 2012 edited
     
    Can't see any reason why it would not work, not so different from the racing boat hulls we used to make in the 1980's, or the steam cabins for that matter and some of them got tiled.
    As for the price, look for the cheapest that will do the job, not as if your looking for the ultimate performance (which has more to do with the glass/carbon/kevlar/diolin/boron fibre and the processing method).
    Just make sure it does not smell once cured and check the fire rating for the application.

    Or just glue some 3mm ply down with wood glue.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeJul 15th 2012
     
    3mm ply? I doubt it will stay flat when wetted by the glue.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeJul 15th 2012
     
    Better than ply, 6mm cementitious tiling backer board, all joints offset from the insulation boards' joints.
  4.  
    Use pir instead of ps, gives same insulatio n for less thkness, leaving space for floating floor over the top to tile onto.

    I look ed into this, theres lots of info on Gbf how to do it and on celotex kingspan etc manf websites. Google ' celotex floating floor' or variation s.

    I ended up getting the extg floor dug out and new slab cast over ins, which was less of a job than I expected.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeJul 15th 2012
     
    Only reason I said 3mm was to keep price down. Yes, 3mm is made warped and then just gets worse, but 6mm would easily warp to, so would need to be kept flat, with a bit of 18, ply and loads of bricks.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeJul 15th 2012
     
    One point of backer board is, being cementitious, doesn't warp. The other points, behaves like tile as far as expansion/contraction etc; and tile adhesives really bond with it, so tiles and board unite into something stable, what, 15mm thick.
  5.  
    ....when I first read this thought of a few ways of doing it, pretty much mentioned above.... ...then I suddenly realised that what JSH is suggesting is to turn the whole floor into a surf board and would not suggest anything else...!

    :wink:

    :surfing:

    J
    • CommentAuthorSaint
    • CommentTimeJul 15th 2012 edited
     
    There are plenty of XPS based tilebacker boards out there now with all different thicknesses so I'd recommend one of them. From memory only Lux tilebacker uses EPS the other European ones use XPS. Not sure if Knauf makes one now otherwise all the others come in from Germany or further afield
    •  
      CommentAuthorJSHarris
    • CommentTimeJul 15th 2012
     
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: James Norton</cite>....when I first read this thought of a few ways of doing it, pretty much mentioned above.... ...then I suddenly realised that what JSH is suggesting is to turn the whole floor into a surf board and would not suggest anything else...!

    J</blockquote>

    I take it you've seen a certain TV show that involved surfboards, then? :bigsmile:
  6.  
    Hi,
    I just checked a piece of 20 mm left over, it came from a bathroom online supplier (dosnt state Marmox) I'd forgotton how rigid and tough it is, thinnest is again 6mm (might flex a bit).
    •  
      CommentAuthorikimiki
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2012 edited
     
    If one wishes to have insulation and keep it thin, is it possible to use spaceloft under a floor surface, e.g. laminate wood?
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2012
     
    no not unless you have read this first http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/forum114/comments.php?DiscussionID=125&page=27#Item_30

    even then the answer is still no!
    •  
      CommentAuthorikimiki
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2012
     
    Thanks Tony,

    Spaceloft isn't mentioned at the beginning of that thread.

    Does it get mentioned at some point later on (among the 27! pages) ?

    http://www.aerogel.com/Aspen_Aerogels_Spaceloft.pdf
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2012
     
    Posted By: ikimikiDoes it get mentioned at some point later on (among the 27! pages) ?

    Almost a a year since there has been any posts on that one, still it is getting towards winter it may start up again :wink:
    • CommentAuthorSaint
    • CommentTimeSep 16th 2012
     
    Posted By: tonyno not unless you have read this firsthttp://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/forum114/comments.php?DiscussionID=125&page=27#Item_30" >http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/forum114/comments.php?DiscussionID=125&page=27#Item_30

    even then the answer is still no!


    Tony, that thread relates to multifoil to which the answer would be no.
    As for aerogel however the answer is definitely yes. As it comes in blanket form but has a reasonable compressive strength then it needs an overlay, chipboard, OSB, cement particle board etc.
  7.  
    Update to original question - I made compromises with the amount of insulation and the floor height and put in XPS under 8cm of concrete with 5mm rebar mesh then tiles.
    Thanks for the help
    • CommentAuthoran02ew
    • CommentTimeSep 16th 2012
     
    why 8cm of concrete, we have 5cm of fibre screed on insulation that would have given another 3cm of insulation
  8.  
    Its what the builder was happy doing!! or to be more precise he did not want to put any less.
    • CommentAuthorwookey
    • CommentTimeSep 16th 2012
     
    I would have done what FT said. Cementitious board of some type to provide stable surface for tiles. My workshop floor is 12mm magnesium silcate board (resistant multipro), over 60mm 250kN XPS. This makes a very rigid and quite tough floor on its own. It would make an excellent tile base. The joins were kept stiff by routing a 10mm deep 150mm wide slot into the XPS to inset and OSB jointing piece into. Much simpler is to use two 6mm-10mm boards offset by 100mm to provide an overlap at joints.
    • CommentAuthoran02ew
    • CommentTimeSep 17th 2012
     
    Posted By: wookeyMuch simpler is to use two 6mm-10mm boards offset by 100mm to provide an overlap at joints.



    Yes. Or bigger overlap and use the spay glue i mention on another GBF discussion to stick the two together creating one continuous sheet. Glues name is ” DM Easy” then as you say top with cementisous board
    •  
      CommentAuthorikimiki
    • CommentTimeSep 20th 2012
     
    I am now empowered by knowledge to answer my own question, and the answer is "Yes".

    Proctor Group makes an aerogel/spaceloft product specifically for this purpose: Spacetherm C

    http://www.proctorgroup.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=i_IUI6vIdU8%3d&tabid=64&mid=2069
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