It's standard practice and has been for generations, although that's the biggest cut back I've ever seen. You only need enough to avoid water building up behind it; giving it some means of draining away. My own method is to cut that part of the outer staff bead (if planted on) at the same angle as the cill and about 6mm short of the cill.

If the front lining forms what is in effect a staff bead for the top sash to run against, then I'll cut away 'square' and bevel it from back to front to follow the angle of the cill, again leaving a 6mm gap.

Likewise, some sash window makers stop the parting bead short of the cill for the same reason, but it's rare and if the bottom sash closes onto an upstand on the cill the parting bead normally comes down in front of that.

It's all down to your own custom and practice and no one is either right or wrong.

Tony, it's nowhere near a glazing rebate, and a drainage hole? It's to stop a build up of water on the cill.

This is one of the original frames on our windows (to judge by the glass that came out in the old sashes, replaced by double-glazing)...

[IMG]http://i50.tinypic.com/wingg6.jpg[/IMG]

And this is also an old one, although not sure if original, from the utility which will eventually be replaced by a double-glazed sash when the new WC is installed...

[IMG]http://i50.tinypic.com/rwowgi.jpg[/IMG]

...you'll notice the absence of any size of gap!


This one is of the replacement window I made for our WC...

[IMG]http://i49.tinypic.com/mre1k0.jpg[/IMG]

I've never known - what is the name of this outer 'fence' member? Staff bead inner, parting bead middle - but the outer one?

I've never seen the outer one done as a planted-on staff bead.

Normally (Bath Georgian, anyway) the masonry outer nib would completely cover this outer face of the frame so you wouldn't see any cutaway. Only in post WW1 AFAIK 'bank branch' Georgian did the box frame come to be exposed externally.

Interesting Tom. I've never seen them completely covered. The masonry coming to level with the pulley stile face but the part of the front lining forming the staff beading extending beyond the brickwork.

I'd imagine there were a lot of local names for the various component parts. The 'horn' I've sometimes seen referred to as a 'joggle'.

For me, the frame parts have always been outer and inner linings; pulley stile (which contains the pulley and against which the sashes run); back stile/board (where the frame has been enclosed against the reveal to prevent mortar dropping in and jamming the weights); the length of free-hanging (in other words fixed only at the top) strip that separates the weights - for which I've never seen a name nor heard it referred to in any other way than to describe what it does; cill (obvious). And on the sashes, all horizontal bars referred to as such with just their position defining them, e.g. top rail, meeting rail; the vertical sections as sash stiles; then either 'glazing bars', 'muntins' (which I've never liked because it confuses with the vertical sections in panels), 'sash bars'.

Restoring or replicating the parts of original windows then the outer lining will be made in one piece and whatever moulding it carries put on when the section which slips over the cill (not invariably the case because they don't all have moulded profiles) is cut away, as you'd do with the shaping of the horn on the sash stiles.

Planting the staff bead on is useful when you've draught-proofed the frame and want a good sliding fit whilst maintaining the same thickness of section on the sashes, in which case the staff bead might have to be made to a shallower depth and it's easier to do that with a separate bead than reducing the thickness of a front lining, made as one piece, on the saw or router - I've seen one guy do it by taking a run down the front edge of the sash stile!

(Forgot 'astragels' for, usually very slim, glazing bars, which can also be curved.)

Actually quite strong jointing. Every joint will be a through-tenon, sometimes dowelled (rare because the dowel becomes noticeable over time) and more often a foxtail wedged tenon joint, usually with no trace of glue, just the putty around the glass holding it all together, plus the wedges in the tenon. The easiest of windows to repair.

Haven't done many with bars that slim, the last one had bars of 1/2" width x 3/4" deep. That was fun! To copy the moulding I had to have custom-made cutters made for an old set of router cutters I've had since 1985, off an old B&D router (the machine long gone) that came with a set of cutters that had a spindle into which slotted the flat cutters, a bit like a very small spindle moulder. Because it was in oak, they had to make a set of preliminary cutters to router out a waste cut or the final cutters would have burnt-out. They lasted just long enough to make the bars for two out of the four windows. I had to keep stopping and plunging the cutter into cold water.

It was cutting the glazing rebate that was the hardest part of the job because it was a bugger to get an even looking profile on the upstand. There wasn't enough material left on a piece after moulding to give you a grip, so it was necessary to cut for the rebate first, the profile cutting needing only a lighter touch. I made twice as many bars as I needed to cover the waste I was expecting. In the event I ruined just the one bar when I dropped the intense concentration needed because it all seemed to be going so well. Hah.

Once the glazing rebate was cut it provided a handy way of holding the material whilst taking it through the router because I made a length of stuff which slotted over the upstand to form a good square profile to hold the stock in the guides, a boon especially when it comes to machining the second cut - that's when your heart is in your mouth. Those 'wasting' cutters proved their worth and I bought the guy who suggested them a carton of beer. That's where establishing a good relationship with the workshops you use proves of value. Even if I thought I had it sussed I always asked for their opinion and never argued with their suggestions, after all, they have the advantage of knowing about other people's mistakes!

The wonderful part of a lot of it was realising how they did some of the things they did in the first place. It's not as if it was a case of neccessity being the mother of invention because the need wasn't there in the first place. Just the musing of some nutcase architect who wanted to prove something to a rival or gain a USP over the competition.

Certainly quicker now with modern machinery (if a tad more dangerous) than it would have been way back when. It used to be nice to turn stuff out by hand, but it was difficult to justify the extra cost when modern tools and machinery make it so much quicker, and the cost of power tools and machinery is now nothing compared to what it used to be.

Posted By: JoinerThey lasted just long enough to make the bars for two out of the four windows. I had to keep stopping and plunging the cutter into cold water.

Would it make sense to apply water/cooling fluid continually, like in a tile cutter or lathe etc?

Posted By: ecohomemmmmm foxtail wedged tenon joint sounds delicious!

Roast or grilled?