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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

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    Photon star LEd's are state of the art reliable GB technology. Does anyone know of other quality but good value alternatives for "on a budget LED" scheme?
    • CommentAuthorWMS
    • CommentTimeJan 23rd 2013
    Try www.miniinthebox.com excellent prices and delivery
    Not just the lamp itself i was thinking.
    Are they any good?
    Photon star have excellent engines and are very robust
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeJan 24th 2013
    What exactly are you looking for? Photon star are putting ARM processors in some of their lights. Are you looking for fancy tech or just light?
    If Photon star are the VW of the led world the skoda!
    Do you know of any ?
    I am thinking of doing the fancy stuff in the open plan kitchen/dining/living
    Dimming and colour but on a budget if possible.

    Thanks for your imput
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeJan 25th 2013 edited
    There are several threads on GU10 and MR16 LED bulbs. Bulbs with this specification (eg > 400 Lumens) are working well for me..


    I can't vouch for that particular supplier but thats the general type/spec. Ideally if this was for a new build you would find fittings specifically designed for LEDs but they tend to be quite expensive.

    MR16 would be better than GU10 because GU10 have a transformer in the bulb which may well fail before the LEDs themselves.

    Best put them in this type of fitting rather than a recessed downlight...


    Mine are in a mixture of fittings but the life expectance in a recessed downlight is unknown. There is concern they may run too hot. Mine were purchased in late 2011. Not had any fails so far.
    Thanks cwatters
    i was actually looking for photon star comparisons, as you say at £48 a fitting very expensive!
    • CommentAuthorrhamdu
    • CommentTimeJan 26th 2013
    Posted By: CWattersMR16 would be better than GU10 because GU10 have a transformer in the bulb which may well fail before the LEDs themselves.

    Is that just a theoretical possibility or have you seen it happen? I am not sure it's much better if you fit 12V LED bulbs and then use 240/12V transformers designed for halogen lighting. The trannies are notoriously prone to failure, and as expensive to replace as some of the cheaper LED bulbs now on the market (not that I'd recommend buying the cheapest LEDs).
    • CommentAuthorwookey
    • CommentTimeJan 27th 2013
    Yes, we've seen it happen - and documented on this very board by JSharris. One driver unit for several lamps has got to be better than one-per-lamp. (Allows the driver to be a lot more efficient/long lived for the same money). And no, don't use 240->12V drivers designed for halogens - use ones designed for LEDs - there are hordes of them out there.

    As I keep saying the best answer is 350mA or 700mA LEDs not '12V' ones. (LEDs are current-controlled devices - make use of this). More efficient, more flexible, should be cheaper.
    I went for LED units. It did cost a great deal of cash but it is a long term investment. I purchased some GU10 directly from China but they are the supplier of a well known company mentioned on here but the units are much cheaper if you buy direct. I also fitted JCC 7 watt units with a 10 year guarantee. The output is not fantastis but I wanted the 10 year safety net. The output is average I would say when you look at it. Obviously it depends on the colour. If you need details then I can whisper.

    Yes please
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeJan 30th 2013
    Some LEDs are so expensive you could replace cheap MR16/GU10 several times over for the same money. It's a tricky decision.
    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeJan 30th 2013 edited
    What about a comparison web site for LED lights? http://www.whichledlight.com/

    Not sure if it's any good as I know little about the subject, but no doubt someone here could take it for a test drive and report back, Clarkson style!
    Yes I agree with CWatters but the energy saving tends to go out of the window as you make all of the cheap LED's to replace the cheap LED's.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeJan 30th 2013
    Only if it turns out they need replacing :-)
    • CommentAuthorBeau
    • CommentTimeJan 30th 2013
    I have to say I don't see much problem with what is already available. For new down lighters the Halers Evo leds are very good and for replacement GU10s cheap SMD type off ebay are working fine for me. We also have some under cupboard leds again no problems to date. I have probably now jinksed all my lights to fail but I really think there are quite a few good off the shelf options available. The only thing I have yet to find is a good MR16 replacement.
    WMS wrote: Try www.miniinthebox.com excellent prices and delivery

    have you had to pay a custom charge for imports from this company? They obviously come from China, but on my purchase they stated it doesn't incur custom charges, been lumped with 20% and a USP fee.
    • CommentTimeJan 30th 2013
    Posted By: CWatterscheap MR16/GU10
    pack of 2 50W GU10s for £1 in local pound shop!
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeJan 30th 2013
    Err well yes. I meant LED MR16/GU10.
    • CommentAuthorvEHMv
    • CommentTimeJan 30th 2013
    I bought some from Amazon recently: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B008VSHMQI/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00 - they're actually very impressive - easily bright enough to replace the halogens!

    Unfortunately I had to send them back as the missus was a big "NO" (far too fussy)! The issue with LED replacements is that even the warm white is too cold for my other half.

    I found this book a useful reference point: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1845433572/
    • CommentAuthorwookey
    • CommentTimeJan 31st 2013
    I would be careful spending too much money on LEDs at the moment because they are still getting 30% more efficient every year or so, so 5-yr old LEDs are (on average) embarassingly inefficient in comparison to current LEDs. This can't go on forever (we've already had 12 years). In theory we still have a factor of 2 headroom (at reasonable CRI) up to around 350lm/W.

    There is even a 'law' for it: Haitz's Law: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haitz%27s_law
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeJan 31st 2013
    Haitz's Law as described there is about the cost and packaging, not the efficiency.
    • CommentTimeJan 31st 2013
    Can you apply it to PV (from the question you asked on another thread)?
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeJan 31st 2013
    Dunno, but I suspect the price of PV is, at the moment, driven by overproduction for the size of the reduced market resulting from reductions in European FITs rather than by technological development. In fact, I'd be surprised if there's much development at all going on just now in actual production capacity (as opposed to long-term thin film research, etc).
    • CommentTimeJan 31st 2013
    I suspect your right. Probably time for the next technology leap. Tempted to say quantum leap there :bigsmile:
    • CommentAuthormatth
    • CommentTimeApr 14th 2013
    As part of a long-planned renovation, we're putting in new lighting throughout downstairs and I'm keen to go LED but nervous about it: is it the wrong decision given a) current service (brightness, hue, longevity, efficiency) per £ and/or b) trajectory of improvement (problem being we need some light while we wait for 'the next generation').
    The renovation includes installing ceilings where previously only rafters. With fairly low head room (c210cm) keen to go mostly for flush fitted down lighters in the ceiling for principal lighting, maybe complemented with spots, lamps and uplighters.
    I'd be really grateful for advice:
    a) on whether going LED is sensible now (given that not everyone is the house is willing to suffer reduced service levels (brightness, hue) for the planet)
    b) if not, what should it be? is it possible to put in a system now that will be easy to retrofit once LEDs have reached whatever plateau of development is awaited?
    c) if so, what systems should I be looking at, either in terms of principles (like, just get GU10s and fit LEDs or dedicated fitting/light? shared driver? if wanting variation should it be through dimmable lights or through separate circuits?;) or (ideally) specific recommendations.
    I have been given Haler and Cree as being good LEDs by an electrician mate
    Just one thing to consider with LED lighting for living spaces (and CFLs to an extent) - they produce a large amount of energy in the blue part of the spectrum (even warm white LEDs do this). This blue component interferes with serotonin production and therefore disturbs sleep patterns. There's some good evidence out there that blue light should be avoided for at least an hour before attempting to go to sleep (this includes computer screens and TVs for that matter). Over here, we're involved with getting street lighting switched over to LEDs, but are pushing hard for amber, rather than white for two reasons. One being the health effects and the other is that blue light is scattered more than red so affects dark skies (for astronomy) more greatly the light which doesn't include blue.

    I can dig out some papers for anyone interested.

    Paul in Montreal.
    • CommentTimeMay 15th 2013
    Adding to Paul's point about 'health' issues, I had my cataracts replaced with nice shiny clear acrylic, unfortunately this means that I have no UV filtering any more. I find LED lighting quite painful.
    I am also quite happy with my £2 8W CFLs hanging on pendants, may look a bit like my Granny's house did in the 1940's, but retro is good, I think.:cool:
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeMay 15th 2013 edited
    I doubt that the problem is due to UV. LEDs produce much less UV light than halogen bulbs or some CFL.

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