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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

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    • CommentAuthorGreenfish
    • CommentTimeApr 30th 2013
    Getting thoroughly frustrated with attempting to get uPVC 3G quotes have decided to reconsider aluminium clad timber frames instead. Unfortunately many of the contenders only offer inward opening windows and I would like some windows to be more like standard casement (but well insulated).

    Any suggestions or recommendations for outward opening ali-clad windows? All I can find so far is Rationel, any others?
    Green Building Store were talking of introducing one.

    Have you seen this company - saw them a few years ago at the show and made note of the name - at the time there range was very like internorm.

    • CommentAuthordickster
    • CommentTimeMay 1st 2013
    Velfac and a big chequebook. They're v good.
    • CommentTimeMay 1st 2013
    Russell Timbertech. Look no further, for adequate quality and unbeatable price. Just received another lot from Russell (my first Al-faced ones) - good quality, size/spec as ordered, late as usual, handles missing as usual.
    • CommentAuthorGreenfish
    • CommentTimeMay 2nd 2013
    Thanks for the suggestions, will check out Idealcombi and Velfac but I do worry for my bank balance. GBS don't have anything on their web site at the moment that opens outwards, is there someone I should talk to about it?

    The Russell site is pretty useless. Tom any chance of some pictures of those ali-clad ones?
    Posted By: GreenfishGBS don't have anything on their web site at the moment that opens outwards, is there someone I should talk to about it?
    They had prototypes at the Ecobuild show in 2012. Worth giving them a call.

    • CommentTimeMay 2nd 2013 edited
    Posted By: GreenfishThe Russell site is pretty useless
    Did you see
    http://www.russelltimbertech.co.uk/files/19/Window%20sections,%20Fully%20Reversible.pdf ?
    Ring and they'll email you other details, incl Al clad - and their PH window is just a deepened-section version of the standard open-out one, with extra seals, thicker units etc, so ask for details of those too.
    Worth persevering.
    • CommentAuthorGreenfish
    • CommentTimeMay 8th 2013
    Tom, is there a trick to getting Russel Timbertech to respond? I phoned, asked for details about Ali clad, PH etc., asked to be sent details, and was assured that someone would phone me first. Of course I have heard nothing :(
    Is it really worth the effort?

    The performance of the Velfac ali clad was disappointing - 36mm and 1.2 was the best they could do with ali. The response was quick, and the quote was very informative giving u values for every unit, but again only 2G (~1.6) initially despite me clearly asking for 3G and 0.8. So I had to chase to get a 1.2 offering. They can get to 0.8, but not with ali, only their composite system does that.

    GBS have no knowledge of opening out ali clad units now or ever. So for now it is just Rationel on the table, unless someone else knows better?
    • CommentTimeMay 8th 2013
    Keep trying!
    What's the problem with Velfac composite? Is there a reason you didn't get them to quote for those?
    Did you call idealcombi for a quote? I'd be interested to know how they did.

    They have a couple of 3G Ali windows

    The Nation Energy range has Uw of 0.87

    The Futura + has the same window at 0.87 but has a PUR insulated frame
    • CommentAuthorGreenfish
    • CommentTimeMay 10th 2013
    Simon - nothing wrong with Velfac Halo. I was a bit miffed that explicitly asking for 3G resulted in a (detailed) 2G quote, but I did pursue the price for 3G. Triple glazed 1.2 units were 10% more, and top of the range composite offering 0.8 was 35% more. Dickster was right, and at £500 per sq m, and 43% more than the 0.8 offering from Rationel, it is too rich for me.

    Calvin - Idealcombi windows seem to only open inwards, so I have not asked for prices.

    My desire for outward opening casement windows (in places) really does reduce the options it seems.
    • CommentAuthordickster
    • CommentTimeMay 10th 2013

    We were a new build and, as everything else seemed to cost an arm and a leg, we went Velfac, a compromise between cost, U value, appearance and most importantly, the area of glass that you can see out of.

    We found the ratio of timber to glass for 3g a bit too "woody" and overbearing. Still, at 0.8, you'll be saving more energy and cash long term.

    Good luck.
    My first quotes are coming in and while I thought I'd been quite clear that insulation value was a priority they're still coming back with poorly performing door options and 2G not 3G.

    When you hang around on here and target your reading I think it's easy to forget that most of the industry is a long way behind.
    • CommentAuthorGotanewlife
    • CommentTimeMay 10th 2013 edited
    Posted By: Simon StillWhen you hang around on here and target your reading I think it's easy to forget that most of the industry is a long way behind
    Good Lord, you should try it in Italy - I'm black and blue from banging my head...!
    Posted By: GreenfishGBS don't have anything on their web site at the moment that opens outwards, is there someone I should talk to about it?
    Green Building Store have just launched an outward opening Passivhaus certified timber window:


    No aluminiun clad option as far as I can see.

    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeOct 19th 2013
    Not Ali clad Greenfish but 3G traditional styles, outward opening, as well as more contemporary. Made in UK and a reasonable price, have a look at their Storvik range.

    • CommentAuthor405man
    • CommentTimeNov 8th 2013
    I visited Russel Timbertech last year looked at there windows left a list of sizes and heard nothing, I phoned a few weeks later and they said they would phone back but never did, I have delayed my project until next year so I am still looking. I like the look of the Velfac ones but I have yet to try them, I would be concerned ordering from Russel Timbertech but at least they are fairly local.

    • CommentAuthorwoodgnome
    • CommentTimeNov 11th 2013
    Posted By: GreenfishAny suggestions or recommendations for outward opening ali-clad windows? All I can find so far is Rationel, any others?

    Olsen do 2 styles of outward opening 3G. I got a quote from them in May which came back fairly quickly.
    • CommentAuthorJonti
    • CommentTimeNov 11th 2013
    It is funny that on most of the builds featuring on TV the windows are nearly always late.

    Anyone fancy suggesting current best supplier
    3g ali-timber
    3g timber
    open out
    • CommentAuthorDarylP
    • CommentTimeJun 30th 2016
    Munster, if you can get them to quote?:wink:
    • CommentTimeJun 30th 2016
    I noticed an Internorm ad that appears to show a similarconstruction to my conservatory door. That is, the window frame is built around the sealed unit, rather than the frame built first and then the glass is mounted in the frame. In my case the result is that the solution to a failed unit (accident damage) is a replacement door. Perhaps it's a new trend. You might want to check with any potential suppliers how easy it is to replace the glazing in their products.
    djh , yes not a good design , cheers for the note.
    hows russell timbertech looking
    • CommentAuthorgravelld
    • CommentTimeJul 4th 2016
    Thanks djh. It would be interesting to hear more long term reviews of how these products perform. I want to believe the hype... :wink:
    • CommentAuthorMarkyP
    • CommentTimeJul 4th 2016
    I'm almost ready to order my windows, I got prices from GBS and Russel Timbertech. Erring towards Russel Timbertech but would be intertested to hear of any recent experiences of their products.
    I got a quote from LivingWood in Bury St Edmunds. Their windows are from Scandinavia, and look like Rationel ones. They beat Origin and Kloeber (although the last one was easy to beat). I'm planning to get a large pane, patio and sliders from them. The rest will have to be upvc (sigh) as the budget it getting stretched.
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