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Heating and cooling: Any experience of pellet stove boilers?

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  1.  
    • CommentAuthorphil6000
    • CommentTimeMay 10th 2013
     
    We are renovating and extending a 1900's 4 bedroomed detached house that previously only had storage radiators. Mains gas is not available and we are considering installing a pellet stove with a 'back-boiler' which will be used to heat water, presumably via a thermal store, for the proposed underfloor heating. It is also intended to provide the domestic hot water.
    We would prefer a stove to a 'normal' pellet boiler due to their size, appearance and cost but are concerned that the idea seems a bit radical.
    Does anyone else do this and what is your experience of it please? Any recommended stoves as there do not seem to be many products about that will produce the 15kw output that I think we will need? Any view on whether we are likely to get the RHI on such a project? Any idea how long a 10kg bag of pellets would last on a typical winters day as we will probably not have an automated feed of pellets from a store.Would some sort of emersion and/or instantaneous showers be more economical than the stove in the summer as solar thermal is not an option?

    Any advice would be appreciated.
    • CommentAuthorDarylP
    • CommentTimeMay 11th 2013
     
    phil6000,
    I am not sure how you are differentiating a 'stove' to a 'boiler'? Do you mean a boiler that looks nice with visible flames? Or a bland regular box that looks just like an oil-fired boiler?
    15kW should be no problem, some go down to 12kW I think?
    Don't hold your breath for the domestic RHI....!
    'Instant' grid Electricity is more expensive than gas, oil or pellets.
    As for winter usage, it depends on how much heat you need in your house?
    Insulate first, then look to meet that reduced (cheaper) space heating need.

    Good luck:smile:
    •  
      CommentAuthornigel
    • CommentTimeMay 11th 2013
     
    I heat a renovated 5 bed georgian farmhouse with a Windhager firewin 12kw stove.

    It will run underfloor heating, no need for a thermal store.

    I use bagged pellets and burn about 2.5 tonnes a year. Two to three bags a day is usually what it burns.
    They are weather compensated as well. We have solar thermal so very little use in the summer.
    I do all routine servicing on it as well.

    If RHI happens then the appliance is an approved one.

    Only issue we have had is if you go away during cold weather the lack of automatic feed means you have to ask someone to feed the boiler.
  4.  
    I'd suggest you also visit some showrooms to have a look and listen to pellet stoves before making a buying decision.

    Admittedly it's about 10 years ago now so the technology may have moved forward but when I considered one then they were quite noisy with a fan running all the time and the flame had very little charm to, certainly none of the appeal of an open fire or a wood burning stove.

    Perhaps Nigel can give some feedback on that?
    •  
      CommentAuthornigel
    • CommentTimeMay 11th 2013
     
    There is no audible fan noise a slight background roar but nothing intrusive and the occasional tinkle of the pellets dropping into the burner.

    We have ours in the kitchen diner and noise has never been commented on.

    The flame is visible and quite intense and I wouldn't compare it to a wood burning stove.
    • CommentAuthorphil6000
    • CommentTimeMay 11th 2013
     
    Thanks DarylP, Nigel and Chris P Bacon for the replies so far.

    Daryl-The type of stove I mean would be what Nigel has rather than the big, industrial looking pellet boilers. Something smaller and that would fit in a kitchen/diner is what we had in mind. But before we make the decision we just need a bit of reassurance that a stove will be 'man enough' for the job.

    Nigel-thanks for that reassurance. I was told that we may need about 5 tonnes a year so your usage is encouraging although we won't have the solar thermal so will use a bit more for the domestic hot water. I was hoping that someone would say a 10kg bag would last 2-3 days so that is a bit more feeding than I was hoping for. What did you mean by 'weather compensated' please?

    Chris-we are trying to find some pellet stoves boilers to go and look at. Not only does it seem that few manufacturers make them but no-one in Somerset sells them!

    Anyone else using pellet stove boilers for whole house heating and DHW?

    Phil
  7.  
    Posted By: phil6000I was hoping that someone would say a 10kg bag would last 2-3 days so that is a bit more feeding than I was hoping for.


    I'm not using one but I know a couple of people who have pellet boilers for whole house heating and DHW and they have both been using over a bag a day in winter, both using rads rather than UFH, can't see a bag lasting 2-3 days apart from during summer.
  8.  
    The answer is simple: simply compare the heating load for your house with the energy in a bag of pellets...less a bit for efficiency losses.
  9.  
    I initially looked at pellet boilers before I went for a GSHP. The HP won as I work away quite a bit and I did not want my wife worrying about pellet feeding etc. The automated store I looked at took up loads of space so that was that. The quality of pellets can vary greatly but I guess if they are by the bag then this should be better.
    I would still consider an automated system if I was in the right area with enough room for the store.
    Good luck though.
  10.  
    If space is tight for a boiler and hopper there are some solutions such as the OPOP Blackstar Kompakt which is 1m high X 760mm deep x 881mm wide.

    http://www.opop.cz/en-kotle-peletove-black-star-kompakt.php

    The integrated hopper can take up to 150kgs of pellets so should get you a number of days between fills and you can get away for short breaks in the winter!

    I've no knowledge of this boiler, good or bad so don't take this as a recommendation, do your own research it's just something that I fleetingly considered for my present build but never got to look into it further before dismissing the idea of going with pellets.

    One reason for dismissing the idea in general is that it would have to be located in our utility room and I was worried about the dust from both the pellets and the ash.
    • CommentAuthorphil6000
    • CommentTimeMay 14th 2013
     
    Thanks for the help so far. We have to make a decision soon on which form of heating and as we don't have room for a wood pellet boiler the choice seems to be a wood pellet boiler stove or oil.

    We are wary of adopting a new technology, as it seems to us, when no-one we know uses it and we can't even see a pellet boiler stove in operation or in a showroom within 50 miles of us . Not wild about the thought of having to unload bags of pellets, storing several in the house for immediate use and the rest in the garage and then moving them around as they get used up, and filling the stove daily. I think we will have to look for some sort of automatic feed from a bulk store otherwise it looks like a load of work compared to oil.

    Financially with the increased cost of pellet boiler stoves, hopper, installation etc it seems that without RHI it will take many years to pay for itself via the slightly lower cost of fuel, at current prices, and it seems to me that future cost of pellets is no more certain than that of oil.

    RHI seems therefore to be critical to this decision as I'm afraid we would not choose biomass on eco grounds alone. Is there anyone out there, apart from Nigel, using a pellet boiler stove for central heating (underfloor or rads) and DHW? And am I missing something on the cost/convenience side. How confident can we be that RHI will happen?
    • CommentAuthorDarylP
    • CommentTimeMay 15th 2013
     
    Phil6000,
    The domestic RHI is not going to happen, in my considered opinion.
    Don't hold your breath.....or consider it when deciding to purchase a biomass boiler.

    The price of pellets is falling on the world market, as more suppliers come into the UK market they will become cheaper.
    If your choice is oil or pellets, reduce your space heating load with improved thermal fabric, then look to meet your DHW demand. A kW saved is a 'free' kW forever!

    Good luck:smile:
  13.  
    Do you have any local supplier of biodiesel which you could run your boiler on?
  14.  
    RHI!!!!!!! I have been looking forward to this since I fitted my HP 18 months ago. It may never come in at all in my view. I would not base any decision on the RHI helping offset the cost although this is exactly what it is intended for!!!!
    I also decided against pellets due to the size and room needed for an automated system. With my work and family life the system must have been easily automated or it would not work for me. It looks like you are reaching the same conclusion.
    Could you not reduce your demand on energy as you renovate to a higher standard and look at a smaller ASHP?
    When i eventually went for the GSHP I was in a position to take the additional installation cost when compared to oil on the chin. It hurt financially but I wanted to get off the oil trail at almost any cost. I guess that it probably set me back an additional 8k or so. I needed vertical bores driling and they cost 7k alone. Still, it is done now and working very well.
    Good luck.:bigsmile:

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