Thu, 25 Jun 2026 07:18:42 +0100 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10688&Focus=177976#Comment_177976 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10688&Focus=177976#Comment_177976 Sun, 16 Jun 2013 16:30:41 +0100 jms452 Posted By: Ed DaviesAnother fag-packet calculation: ignoring MCS and FITs you could probably do a DIY install for around £1000/kW (¹), particularly on a new build where you can reclaim the VAT and you have roof access sorted, electricians in, etc, anyway. That kW would likely produce about 800 kWh/year. If, as is not usually the case, you could make good use of all of that and your electricity costs £0.12/kWh that would save you £96/year giving break-even in 10.5 years with no dependence on the whims of future governments.

Does this mean Monbiot will be paying up?]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10688&Focus=177977#Comment_177977 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10688&Focus=177977#Comment_177977 Sun, 16 Jun 2013 18:09:59 +0100 DarylP
I think you mean Chester
Shrewsbury is a town!]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10688&Focus=177996#Comment_177996 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10688&Focus=177996#Comment_177996 Sun, 16 Jun 2013 21:46:03 +0100 wookey https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10688&Focus=178007#Comment_178007 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10688&Focus=178007#Comment_178007 Sun, 16 Jun 2013 23:09:42 +0100 Ed Davies
Be interesting the compare the employment per average MW for, say, gas vs wind.

OTOH, I think the idea that it's good to provide jobs is totally back to front - but maybe a separate thread if anybody wants to discuss that.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10688&Focus=178012#Comment_178012 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10688&Focus=178012#Comment_178012 Mon, 17 Jun 2013 08:28:53 +0100 windy lamb OK, so a job is a job local or not BUT when the developer comes along and says the wind farm will provide 10 maintenance jobs he forgets to say that those 10 people are already employed maintaining the existing farms and just have another location to visit on their schedule - not actually any new jobs, just a bit busier for those already employed? The maintenance teams aren't local if they stay in the local B&Bs.

Fostertom- It is Chester, although I wouldn't recommend it (shooting a Welshman) don't think Chester Constabulary recognise the defence these days.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10688&Focus=178017#Comment_178017 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10688&Focus=178017#Comment_178017 Mon, 17 Jun 2013 09:46:48 +0100 ted There are precisely zero local jobs provided by the wind farm. No new jobs are provided at Rheidol. There might be 0.1 fte extra work for WPD. I'm not sure where the maintenance crews are based, but again not local. I'll try to find out. These particular 10 turbines do seem to require a high degree of maintenance - they are being worked on almost every month.

I would really like to know exactly where the Telegraph's 12,000 jobs are in the wind industry. The last report I looked at that detailed the number of jobs in the 'green economy' was laughable. They are mostly council/contractor refuse collectors who are all now classed as 'recycling operatives' and huge numbers for people based in the City of London.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10688&Focus=178018#Comment_178018 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10688&Focus=178018#Comment_178018 Mon, 17 Jun 2013 11:18:24 +0100 SteamyTea A mate of mine works on 'green energy projects that are doomed to failure', there are about 20 of them at his place. I think the Wave Hub has a full time person (though no one has plugged in yet, maybe soon), then there is all the plumbers fitting condensing boilers, electricians helping out, the insulation crews, organic farmers and anyone that has sold some fuel with bio-diesel or ethanol in it.
Just about every company I know claims to be 'green'.
So I think there is about 30m green jobs ]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10688&Focus=178021#Comment_178021 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10688&Focus=178021#Comment_178021 Mon, 17 Jun 2013 11:31:40 +0100 Ed Davies Posted By: windy lambEd, If there is so much business for the B&Bs from maintenance and development of wind farms it sure points to the jobs not being very local.Right, but running the B&B, etc, provides local jobs. My point is that there are indirect effects - there's some activity in the local economy which wouldn't be there without the wind farms.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10688&Focus=178022#Comment_178022 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10688&Focus=178022#Comment_178022 Mon, 17 Jun 2013 11:34:27 +0100 SteamyTea http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplier_%28economics%29]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10688&Focus=178027#Comment_178027 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10688&Focus=178027#Comment_178027 Mon, 17 Jun 2013 12:41:20 +0100 jms452
The cost was about a billion, so at best these jobs are a rather thin layer of icing on the cake.

Using jobs to justify wind power is backwards - Its more a question of if the UK is investing in renewables it makes sense to maximize the jobs created. Possibly even following on to that exporting we need...]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10688&Focus=178031#Comment_178031 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10688&Focus=178031#Comment_178031 Mon, 17 Jun 2013 13:00:49 +0100 SteamyTea Posted By: jms452Using jobs to justify wind power is backwardsI tend to agree with that.
It should be better to have a generation system that is low on pollutions and low on labour.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10688&Focus=178047#Comment_178047 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10688&Focus=178047#Comment_178047 Mon, 17 Jun 2013 15:10:32 +0100 windy lamb
Ed, I would suspect that the B&Bs serving the wind farm maintenance crews have only made up for the loss of business from the tourists no longer visiting, who knows. The B&Bs would be there anyway, may be a bit busier or a bit less so, but no new jobs because of the turbines. I do concede that there are a few redundant fishermen now employed ferrying crews off shore but they would probably be still fishing had it not been for the EU - progress ah!]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10688&Focus=178050#Comment_178050 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10688&Focus=178050#Comment_178050 Mon, 17 Jun 2013 16:03:32 +0100 ted
Our estimate for UK employment figures for 2011/12 is 12,242 people as of April
2012. This is based on the 2010 figures presented in the report ‘Working for a
Green Britain’. This report concludes that the wind sector employed 9,756
full-time equivalent staff. To arrive at the 2012 figure, we have analysed
forecasting models developed for the Working for a Green Britain Volume 2
report, using actual installation data to 2012. Revised figures will be available in
2013 when RenewableUK commissions a comprehensive survey update to
Working for a Green Britain.

http://www.renewableuk.com/en/publications/index.cfm/SOI2012

The Working for a Green Britain report, July 2011:

http://www.renewableuk.com/en/publications/index.cfm/Working-for-a-Green-Britain-Volume-2

This seems to be a report of 'projections' rather than firm statistics, and employment figures are based
around a figure of 6,000 directly employed in April 2010.

The Appendix states:
The (survey) sample of employers was provided by RenewableUK and 561 companies
were emailed informing them of the survey and its purpose. 253 companies
supplied data via telephone interview.

So the employment data is based on less than 50% of companies.

There is also their BiGGAR report of May 2012:

http://www.renewableuk.com/en/publications/index.cfm/BiGGAR

which seems to state (p49) that the direct and supply chain employment in 2011 was actually only 8,640.

I very much doubt that anywhere near 12,000 people are employed in UK wind power.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10688&Focus=178067#Comment_178067 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10688&Focus=178067#Comment_178067 Mon, 17 Jun 2013 18:27:52 +0100 SteamyTea
Nothing wrong with a sampling rate of 50%, would be better than most.]]>