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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

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    • CommentAuthorTerry
    • CommentTimeMar 15th 2007
     
    Threads on the old forum indicate that cement render is an effective air barrier when trying to achieve air tightness.
    Would this apply to lime render as well and how would it compare with cement render?
    Does anybody have any data to quantify how effective these renders are as an air barrier?
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeMar 15th 2007 edited
     
    Not so sure about any kind of external render as an air barrier - succesful renders are designed to develop hairline cracks at close spacing, say 12mm in all directions, as a helpful alternative to the bigger cracks widely spaced that's so disastrous, a common cause of water penetration, with strong cement renders. Cracking is inevitable with external renders.
    Internal plasters are a different matter. Who uses cement render/plasters internally? Gypsum plaster and lime plaster internally should make masonry pretty airtight, however rough and gappy the masonry is, provided the usual plaster cracks are filled as they occur - or at least, as normal, at redecoration time.
    • CommentAuthorGuest
    • CommentTimeMar 15th 2007
     
    If your render has hairline cracks every 12mm you've got serious problems - I suggest you hack off and ask for your money back.

    Terry - I seem to remember someone doing succesful tests on lime plaster with straw bales but can't remember the details - I think there might have been a story on Plant Fibre Technologies website? But its down at the mo. Lime allows water vapour transmission on a microscopic scale - it will still block out draughts and air circulation - just like a windproof jacket will keep the wind off you, but let moisture escape.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeMar 15th 2007
     
    Guest, though I'm tempted to ignore anyone who doesn't declare themselves, hairline cracks every 12mm is the secret of the success of roughcast render aka harling, which creates crack stress-risers around every pebble. The principle is water easy-in, just like every kind of render, but then water easy-out as soon as the sun shines, unlike render that cracks in bigger panels, which obstructs re-evaporation thus acts as a one-way pump. Don't think that render won't crack - it starts shrinking from the moment it's applied. You're lucky if you haven't got serious problems, if your cracks are much more than 12mm apart.
    • CommentAuthorGuest
    • CommentTimeMar 16th 2007
     
    >The principle is water easy-in, just like every kind of render, but then water easy-out as soon as the sun shines
    Don't confuse water permeability and water vapour permeability. Having hairline cracks in your render will significantly increase your water permeability,as they will be big enough to soak up water droplets, (prob. under capillary action if they're hairline) but not water vapour permeability. Thats why under the British Standard for test for renders there are is a test for each, with each figure being stated seperately.

    >unlike render that cracks in bigger panels, which obstructs re-evaporation thus acts as a one-way pump
    How does a big crack obstruct water re-evaporation? Water vapour permeability is determined by the microscopic pore structure of the render - not by cracks. All a crack can do is increase the surface area exposed to air, but it doesn't change the pore structure. Thats why cement/acrylic renders are very "un-breathable" - even though they often crack badly due to poor elasticity. The acrylic blocks the pore structure.

    >Don't think that render won't crack - it starts shrinking from the moment it's applied
    Cement and lime both shrink as they dry and set, it varies depending on the precise material, even where it comes from. There are ways around it.

    >You're lucky if you haven't got serious problems, if your cracks are much more than 12mm apart
    Cracking can be determined by a number of factors - I'm not sure if you're talking about shrinkage drying (cure - reduces fines or cement content, reduce water addition with plasticisers) or cracking after the render has set (poss cures include stabilise background before rendering, use a more elastic render).
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeMar 16th 2007
     
    Guest, I really don't want to correspond with an anonymity, especially one who's adopting an authoritative manner, expecting to be believed. Why don't you sign in?
    • CommentAuthorTerry
    • CommentTimeMar 16th 2007
     
    Humble apologies - I seem to have got all confused.
    I was infact thinking about internal plaster rather than external render as Tom suspected.:shamed:
  1.  
    Hi I am a plasterer, although not any technical expert, but I can see where fostertom is coming from with the harling or pebble-dash finish, stands to reason that cement will be weakest at the thinnest point ie. around the pebbles. Cement render becomes more brittle over time and it definitely shrinks. Any cement render will refuse to flex if the brick work moves so it cracks instead, whereas lime plaster has the ability to flex and heal fine cracks by itself. Lime plaster breathes, is supposed is carbon neutral and it looks great too. Cement has only been popular for about eighty years because it sets quicker, but there is a revival in lime plaster at present, and it looks set to come down in price if this continues. it's not nice if you get it in your eye though. :bigsmile:
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeMay 6th 2007
     
    In answer to the original question yes lime systems when used as internal plasters are just as effective as cement (or gypsum) systems. It is however very not the plaster that is the problem but how it is (or is not) joined to the many other parts of the building fabric that is a much greater source for concern.
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