Renewable Energy: When the lights go out

91 to 113 of 113

- CommentAuthorJonti
- CommentTimeDec 17th 2013
Not up here in Scotland ST. lots of the landlords stipulate.
- CommentAuthorborpin
- CommentTimeDec 17th 2013
If you were listening to Martin Lewis on 5 Live then he did make the point that you cannot change provider (if it is a condition of the lease) but you can choose the tariff including a fix as most fixes do not have exit penalties if you move.
- CommentAuthorborpin
- CommentTimeDec 17th 2013
You can make almost anything a condition of the lease (strictly a license to occupy IIRC). In this respect I think Scotland and the rUK are the same.
- CommentAuthorSteamyTea
- CommentTimeDec 17th 2013
Would have been on Radio 4, so could have been Call Moneybox or You and Yours. Was a phone in bit.

They have odd laws up in Scotland, most seem to work quite well.
- CommentAuthorJonti
- CommentTimeDec 17th 2013
Odd everything up here ST but that is what makes it interesting.

Jonti
- CommentAuthorskyewright
- CommentTimeDec 17th 2013
Posted By: GarethCHave you discussed rising block tariffs on this forum? i.e. 0% VAT (or even a subsidy!) on the first XkWh of a household's usage (the XkWh being an estimate of what people need to stay warm and cook food with if being sensible about usage and undertaking basic/cheap energy efficiency measures), then 20% VAT on the next YkWh of energy, then 50% VAT above a level that's deemed excessive for a single household.

How to assign a reasonable X to any given household? There must be very many variables, the most obvious being the number of people, their ages, location, climate,...
- CommentAuthorJonti
- CommentTimeDec 17th 2013
Posted By: skyewright
Posted By: GarethCHave you discussed rising block tariffs on this forum? i.e. 0% VAT (or even a subsidy!) on the first XkWh of a household's usage (the XkWh being an estimate of what people need to stay warm and cook food with if being sensible about usage and undertaking basic/cheap energy efficiency measures), then 20% VAT on the next YkWh of energy, then 50% VAT above a level that's deemed excessive for a single household.

How to assign a reasonable X to any given household? There must be very many variables, the most obvious being the number of people, their ages, location, climate,...

That is why government then works out a simple formula so simple that no one really understands how it works.

Skyewright, there is no answer that will suit all but a low cost, minimum use answer is the answer to making energy affordable to all.

Jonti
- CommentAuthorskyewright
- CommentTimeDec 18th 2013
Posted By: Jonti
That is why government then works out a simple formula so simple that no one really understands how it works.

Skyewright, there is no answer that will suit all but a low cost, minimum use answer is the answer to making energy affordable to all.

Certainly an interesting idea, but terribly complex to make both "affordable to all" and a useful exercise.

The trigger for "Cold Weather Payments" (the closest thing I can think of that already exists - not really close, but...) already varies according to location & actual weather.

Around here the place used for the trigger used to be Tiree which by coincidence or otherwise also often happened to be the warmest place in the area (low lying, open aspect, surrounded by sea,...)! I believe the trigger site has now been changed?
- CommentAuthormarkocosic
- CommentTimeDec 18th 2013
"You can make almost anything a condition of the lease (strictly a license to occupy IIRC). In this respect I think Scotland and the rUK are the same."

They're invariably an assured shorthold tenancy south of the border. Far more flexible:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/11892/138286.pdf

"How to assign a reasonable X to any given household?"

Per person on the electoral roll at that property, plus an allowance for children for whom they are legal parents or guardians with custody.

Anything else subsidises the owners of poor quality housing stock or those under-occupying larger properties.
- CommentAuthorborpin
- CommentTimeDec 18th 2013
Posted By: markocosic"You can make almost anything a condition of the lease (strictly a license to occupy IIRC). In this respect I think Scotland and the rUK are the same."

They're invariably an assured shorthold tenancy south of the border. Far more flexible:
Law is pretty much the same up here re tenancies. License to Occupy is different (usually a rent a room type agreement). Either way, restricting fuel supplier can be a condition imposed.
- CommentAuthordb8000
- CommentTimeDec 18th 2013
The Unfair Contrct Terms Act applies to Assured Shorthold Tenancies in England & Wales. I think the OFT have stated it is unfair to prevent tenants from switching completely. Therefore such a clause (which is common nonetheless) is void.

However a clause requiring the tenant to seek landlord's consent (not to be unreasonably withheld) is allowed. It is reasonable to refuse if physical alterations are required to carry out the change.
- CommentAuthorJonti
- CommentTimeDec 18th 2013
db8000,

the other problem is of course the duration of an agreement. Landlords do not want tenants to leave leaving the landlord to honour a fixed term contract.

Jonti
- CommentAuthorborpin
- CommentTimeDec 19th 2013 edited
Posted By: db8000I think the OFT have stated it is unfair to prevent tenants from switching completely.
I would like to see any sort of evidence for this statement. I'm pretty sure that you are allowed to restrict supplier but not tariff.
Posted By: Jontithe other problem is of course the duration of an agreement. Landlords do not want tenants to leave leaving the landlord to honour a fixed term contract.
The contract for the tariff is between the tenant and the power company. Any arrears etc are the tenants liability not the landlords (even if they do a runner). The landlord takes a reading on repossession and they are liable from that point. (edit) Most tariffs / fixed contracts end if the consumer moves with no penalties.
- CommentAuthorborpin
- CommentTimeDec 19th 2013
Did my own digging and seems things have changed. https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/news/tenants-energy-rights-explained indicates you can though note the date of the guidance.

Having had 2 rented properties in the last few years, both agreements restricted change of supplier so I think this is a new position.
- CommentAuthorSteamyTea
- CommentTimeDec 19th 2013
The way I read that is that tenants can change (unless there is some reason why they cannot, probably a technical one).
I wonder how many landlords actually keep up the the latest legislation.
- CommentAuthorJonti
- CommentTimeDec 19th 2013
Posted By: SteamyTeaThe way I read that is that tenants can change (unless there is some reason why they cannot, probably a technical one).
I wonder how many landlords actually keep up the the latest legislation.

Fewer than many imagine and the big firms are often the worst at updating.

Jonti
- CommentAuthordjh
- CommentTimeDec 19th 2013
Posted By: SteamyTeaI wonder how many landlords actually keep up the the latest legislation.

Doesn't really matter. The tenant just calls an energy supplier and moves. The landlord only finds out afterwards if the tenant is good enough to tell them. When we moved into our current rented place a year ago last August, I changed supplier and nobody knew who the previous supplier was! Didn't stop the process though.
- CommentAuthordb8000
- CommentTimeDec 19th 2013
@Borpin, you've found the answer to your question to me anyway, but interestingly, this is not new:

See P. 64 from the OFT's guidance from September 2005

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/unfair_contract_terms/oft356.pdf

@Jonti - I wonder if signing up to a fixed tariff that runs beyond the end of the tenancy fixed term might be a reasonable excuse to refuse consent.
- CommentAuthorborpin
- CommentTimeDec 19th 2013
Posted By: db8000@Borpin, you've found the answer to your question to me anyway, but interestingly, this is not new:
See P. 64 from the OFT's guidance from September 2005
Yes but that whole section is about conditions that are *potentially* unfair in the OFT's view at that time. The lastest guidance is more specific in that it is an unfair condition.
Posted By: db8000@Jonti - I wonder if signing up to a fixed tariff that runs beyond the end of the tenancy fixed term might be a reasonable excuse to refuse consent.
For the third time I will say that fixed price tariffs have clauses in them that terminate the contract on moving (whether an owner or tenant). I suspect to do otherwise would be considered unfair as you would then only be able to move within the same supply area.
- CommentAuthordb8000
- CommentTimeDec 19th 2013
If one wishes to be pedantic, you did say most fixes rather than all fixes.
- CommentAuthorborpin
- CommentTimeDec 20th 2013
Posted By: db8000If one wishes to be pedantic, you did say most fixes rather than all fixes
Ah excellent, a pedant who spotted another pedants change. Yes I did, but on doing some digging I did not find any that didn't and as I say, I suspect, because the price is tied to your location, making it otherwise would be an unfair contract condition.
- CommentAuthorEd Davies
- CommentTimeDec 20th 2013 edited
Posted By: borpinAh excellent, a pedant who spotted another pedant's change.
- CommentAuthoratomicbisf
- CommentTimeDec 20th 2013 edited
Meanwhile China's 12th five-year plan is aiming for 30% of electricity to be produced from renewables by 2015 even as the country's demand continues to rapidly increase. It rather makes this government's efforts appear unambitious and feeble.

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