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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
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    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeFeb 10th 2014 edited
    I'm in the design phase of a new build and have started to consider the SAP calculation.

    So having read the BRE guide to SAP I was wondering where I can get a copy of the spreadsheet?

    The BRE SAP web page appears to link to private companies, but not the software or a spreadsheet!
    • CommentAuthorDarylP
    • CommentTimeFeb 10th 2014

    The SAP doc is available foc: http://www.bre.co.uk/sap2009/page.jsp?id=1642

    However, most approved s/w is available to licensed Assessors, but at a cost.
    STROMA may still allow you download their FSAP2009 foc?

    But I should point out it is complicated, and can catch out the unwary....

    Good luck:smile:
    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeFeb 10th 2014 edited
    DarylP - thanks for the link - oooh I see what you mean, not straight forward! It's a bit of a black box, no doubt designed to funnel in paying customers to Stoma.

    Shall have to re-think how I double check the architects SAP calculation, I have a feeling that default values and guestimates may have been used in places - rubbish in, rubbish out!!

    The other problem I have is that the proposed new build is L shaped, with one wing being 1.5 story and the other being 2.5 story (lower ground floor being an open fronted basement), both linked by the entrance hall/stairs. So not straight forward.
    • CommentAuthorstones
    • CommentTimeFeb 10th 2014
    Have you looked at Sapper 9 software


    There is a free download which lets you enter figures and see where you come out - useful to let you play with variables before committing to getting the actual SAP report done. I think there are other free / trial available. This one was certainly pretty straightforward to use.
    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeFeb 10th 2014
    Posted By: stonesuseful to let you play with variables before committing to getting the actual SAP report
    This is the sort of thing I'm looking for. Thanks.
    • CommentAuthorneilu
    • CommentTimeFeb 10th 2014
    I presume your architect is a fully registered SAP assessor, ie one that can produce the EPC at completion.
    If he is then a sample of his EPC's will get audited so he should know what he is doing.
    However that doesn't mean he is using default values where he could be using detailed data.
    If he can't produce the EPC at the end of the job then him carrying out the SAP is a waste of time.

    Is there any way you can upload the SAP printout with his details blanked out so as not to get the forum into trouble?
    That way you might get a few qualified assessors, eg me, having a quick look through it.
    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeFeb 10th 2014
    Posted By: neiluI presume your architect is a fully registered SAP assessor
    She tells me they farm this work out, so I'll be digging a little deeper tomorrow to find out the level of service I can expect. I really want to optimise my build using the right materials, level of insulation,etc to get the best for my money.
    • CommentAuthorneilu
    • CommentTimeFeb 10th 2014
    You are definitely right to want to get the best for your money.
    If they farm them out then you would expect them to use someone who regularly does SAP's so you'd like to think the assessor has done a 'proper 'job.

    The main item to look out for to see if they've taken short cuts is thermal bridging, this should be fully calculated rather than using the poor default value of 0.15.
    If they haven't used the default 0.15 and used a better (lower) value then chances are they aren't taking short cuts as this is calculation is a pain to do on complicated houses.
    • CommentAuthorSigaldry
    • CommentTimeFeb 11th 2014
    In defence of those assessors using garbage inputs to get garbage outputs - If all they receive from the architect/developer/builder is garbage or no information, you can't really blame them. The defaults are there for use when no information is available - worst case.

    The better the information provided to an assessor, the better the outputs will be - goes for design stage assessment and the updated as built one.
    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeFeb 27th 2014
    Does the Government have any agenda to use the SAP or EPC results in the future? Things like rateable value calculations based SAP or EPC?
    Self Build and design magazine has had a pretty large article detailing all the stuff that goes into the new SAP calcs spread over the current and previous issues.

    Might be worth getting a copy of
    • CommentTimeFeb 27th 2014

    Can you confirm which issue/month that was in as I fancy a read.Ta
    March and April issues.
    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeFeb 27th 2014 edited
    Posted By: Simon StillMarch and April issues.
    Thanks, I'll get both issues and have a good read.:wink:
    Actually over 3 issues from the look of it - started in Feb
    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeFeb 28th 2014
    Just a pity there is no free "what if" style spreadsheet available to help the self builder, and others, do some sensitivity analysis.

    What does the SAP assessment achieve? From what I've read the original intent was watered down significantly and I'm left wondering is anything in the planning system that has not been watered down to suit big business!
    • CommentAuthorSigaldry
    • CommentTimeFeb 28th 2014
    Look at SAP 2012 and Part L1A 2013 documents (search on t'internet).

    New regulations have a deemed to be compliant package that also serves as a good level to pitch compliance from.

    From extensive SAP modelling, those levels are about right under SAP2012 - and seeing as L1A 2013 is only 6% better than L1A 2010, the levels aren't significantly out from current levels.

    You need to get design assessments done before you start work on site anyway and it's a good idea to get a competent assessor involved from the outset imho.

    You could try and get an assessor to use STROMA's free to download software if you want and request copies of the files used for design assessments so you can 'have a play'.
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