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Housing - New Build: Passivhaus in outer Hebrides (SIPS?)

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    • CommentAuthorjamesingram
    • CommentTimeFeb 20th 2014 edited
     
    Friend of mines looking to build a home on Lewis
    80m2 , 2 bed , Basic rectangle , pitched roof , gable ends
    got a local SIPS designer/builder to do shell and was wondering re. heat source etc.
    I'd be keen to push him toward PH type structure.
    some ideas
    PV roof (as much as possible) ,mains water cylinder Immersion for HW with PV dump,
    Solid fuel stove (peat) for secondary heat source (maybe Backboiler for HW back up) .
    UFH in slab connected to simple electric heat source for back up.
    he could go GSHP (he's not keen on ASHP(noise)) but if he could stick that budget into structure then PH might
    make it unnecessary. Also gales make power cut likely.

    So couple of questions.
    Anyone know of PH build on Lewis etc. for him to visit or info share ?
    Can SIPS be beefed up to PH standard ?
    Anyone nearby with PH design experience to consult?
    PV dump /immersion only for HW, is this wise given the bleak winters ?
    cheers Jim
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeFeb 20th 2014
     
    Posted By: jamesingramAnyone know of PH build on Lewis etc. for him to visit or info share ?
    Not on Lewis but that Grand Designs house for/by two women on Skye is not far from the Uig ferry terminal, I think. Not certified PH (IIRC) but considerably better than building regs.
    • CommentAuthorjamesingram
    • CommentTimeFeb 20th 2014 edited
     
    Here's SIPS PH questioned answered , yes you can
    http://www.kingspantek.co.uk/About-Us/News/Free-Passivhaus-Projects-Brochure
    Free Passivhaus Projects Brochure from Kingspan Insulation. LINK not WORKING
    Lots on web anyway
    interesting blog page from US, not seen EPS sips , wonder how price compares here.
    http://passivehousepa.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/structural-insulated-panels-sip-walls.html
  4.  
    like this
    Passivhaus primer: Contractor’s guide
    So you’ve been asked to build a Passivhaus?
    http://www.passivhaus.org.uk/filelibrary/Primers/Passivhaus_Contractors_Guide.pdf
  5.  
    Hes talking larch cladding. Seems abit exposed for wood .Any thoughts
    • CommentAuthorDonkey
    • CommentTimeFeb 20th 2014
     
    Explanation of the difference between consultants and designers.
    http://www.passivhausplaner.eu/index.php?page_id=282&level1_id=239

    From their website it seems there are no consultants or designers on Lewis. These are the nearest ones I could find.

    Passive House consultant in Tobermory
    http://www.passivhausplaner.eu/mitglieder_anzeige.php?amnum=1936

    Passive House designer in Fort William
    http://www.passivhausplaner.eu/mitglieder_anzeige.php?amnum=2942
  7.  
    You will pay a lot to get SIPS to PH levels. Any timber clad houses will age very quickly here which may or may not be what they like the look of, that's why everyone else has rendered walls which age quickly enough themselves!

    The Hydro Board are quite good at keeping the power on and it gets better every year. That stove idea will be very expensive to sort out if he is going down the certified PH route.

    If he is seriously worried about ASHP noise then does he realise where he is building? Has he spent a winter on Lewis? There are months of gales, many for days at a time which make an awful lot more noise than any little ASHP fan running..... the ASHP will be in a very corrosive environment and may not last very long. Lots of PV here already, just need to make sure it is well anchored to the roof. Wind turbine likely to generate more energy in winter though.
    • CommentAuthorjamesingram
    • CommentTimeFeb 21st 2014 edited
     
    He's been up there 15 years+ . Been talking about building for a while. Personally I'd go with utility blockwork build , as you say like the locals do. ICFs water tight and up quick. Which will leave him to diy the fit out. Fair point re noise. Whats a ashp with thermal store going to cost? Gshp would be good. Just seems all these heat source options would reduce potential for fabric first approach on a limited budget. Hadn't considered small wind turbine. 6kwp all in cost anyone? He's got a small stream on plot. No idea of flow rate . Mirco hydro would be fantasic solution.
    • CommentAuthorDonkey
    • CommentTimeFeb 21st 2014
     
    QUOTE [Any timber clad houses will age very quickly here which may or may not be what they like the look of, that's why everyone else has rendered walls which age quickly enough themselves!] END QUOTE

    There's more than one way to skin a cat. Denby Dale house was built to Passivhaus spec using cavity wall construction. It's one of the ways I am considering for a house in the Orkney Islands.
    http://www.building.co.uk/passivhaus-diaries-part-two-why-we-chose-cavity-walls/3141714.article
    http://www.greenbuildingstore.co.uk/page--denby-dale-passivhaus-technical-film.html
    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeFeb 21st 2014 edited
     
    I'd suggest you look at Paul's web site, he lives off grid and has a wind turbine or 2, a hydro system, pv and wood stove Tec. Look at the right hand side of the page and you will find a list of the items , you need to scroll down.

    http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/about/
  11.  
    I like the idea of 150-225mm medium dense block with EWI >200mm EPS platinum, thin coat mesh render with dash type finish. This could be a quick structure build solution, very simple, cheap , local trades etc.
    Wonder how thin coat render would fair in that environment .
    • CommentAuthorJonti
    • CommentTimeFeb 21st 2014
     
    If not in an area at risk of flooding I would be tempted to sink the house in to the ground say 1 meter or build up the ground level in ramp style as this would reduce the exposure to the elements. Being so far north the most important direction for light is south. My croft has two windows and French doors facing south and only one very small window (50cm x 30cm) facing north and I have plenty of light through the day.

    Jonti
  13.  
    Good point Jonti. We chatted re. little or no windows north wall , most south. Unfortunately sea views northish.
    Site locations peaty on shallow bedrock I believe.
    • CommentAuthorJonti
    • CommentTimeFeb 21st 2014
     
    Shame about the views. Maybe building the main living room with north facing 3G or 4G non opening windows but then the rest facing south for solar gain which will still be important even in the long summer days in that location.

    The building up technique would work and also make deposal of the excavated material from the foundations.

    Jonti
  15.  
    Posted By: Donkey
    There's more than one way to skin a cat. Denby Dale house was built to Passivhaus spec using cavity wall construction. It's one of the ways I am considering for a house in the Orkney Islands.


    You might want to phone the local building control in Orkney and double check if they are OK with signing off a full fill cavity construction, they may want a cavity in which case the whole thing gets very expensive.
  16.  
    Posted By: jamesingramHe's been up there 15 years+ . Been talking about building for a while. Personally I'd go with utility blockwork build , as you say like the locals do. ICFs water tight and up quick. Which will leave him to diy the fit out. Fair point re noise. Whats a ashp with thermal store going to cost? Gshp would be good. Just seems all these heat source options would reduce potential for fabric first approach on a limited budget. Hadn't considered small wind turbine. 6kwp all in cost anyone? He's got a small stream on plot. No idea of flow rate . Mirco hydro would be fantasic solution.


    The standard locally is timber frame with a blockwork external leaf. Done by 90%+ of new builds here, very well understood, costings and timescales for builds can be very accurate. There are a few ICFs, but generally only for odd builds like built into the ground or funny shapes (I have the exception with my ICF build which is neither!)

    Ask Alex Murray Construction for quote for heat pump costs, might be worth checking the head and the flow on the burn as you say for hydro although I think every burn on the island will have good flow rates recently as the ground is pretty wet.

    Your block on the flat with external EPS would probably be quite cheap, the thin coat render it will remain to be seen just how well it fares, the new secondary school has large amounts of thin render which is still white (it's onto insulation). Next to it however the render on the sports centre is a disaster with large amounts of growth and discolouring although I can't say for sure exactly what they used as its a few years older.
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeFeb 21st 2014
     
    Posted By: willie.macleodYou might want to phone the local building control in Orkney and double check if they are OK with signing off a full fill cavity construction, they may want a cavity in which case the whole thing gets very expensive.
    I got the impression that they were fairly open-minded about building on Orkney. There's at least one properly approved strawbale (infill) house there.

    Personally, I'd go for a ventilated rain screen scheme of some sort. I'm not entirely convinced about blocks inside the insulation where they do, at least, provide thermal mass but outside I really can't see the point at all.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeFeb 21st 2014
     
    Posted By: Ed DaviesI'm not entirely convinced about blocks inside the insulation where they do, at least, provide thermal mass but outside I really can't see the point at all.

    I think the idea is that they stand up to wind turbine blades or other people's roofs as they fly past.
    • CommentAuthorskyewright
    • CommentTimeFeb 21st 2014 edited
     
    Posted By: jamesingramHes talking larch cladding. Seems abit exposed for wood .Any thoughts

    A lot of houses built on Skye in the last few years have used larch cladding.
    Here's the domestic house examples page for one of the local architects. You'll see quite a bit of larch...

    http://www.dualchas.com/private_residential.html
  20.  
    Was just looking at an episode of Grand Designs from last year about a house in Wales that used UK grown Japanese Larch that seemed to be very tough and needed no treatment to stand up to the elements. Would be worth taking a look at if they are going down that road.
    • CommentAuthorjamesingram
    • CommentTimeFeb 21st 2014 edited
     
    Posted By: willie.macleodYour block on the flat with external EPS would probably be quite cheap, the thin coat render it will remain to be seen just how well it fares, the new secondary school has large amounts of thin render which is still white (it's onto insulation). Next to it however the render on the sports centre is a disaster with large amounts of growth and discolouring although I can't say for sure exactly what they used as its a few years older.

    they do some dash/spar type finishes for thincoat , I think these would fair better in exposed locations rather than single colour light finishes.

    Any know of UK EPS SIPS >200mm thick ?
  22.  
    Posted By: jamesingram

    they do some dash/spar type finishes for thincoat , I think these would fair better in exposed locations rather than single colour light finishes.


    Just thinking, there have been quite a lot of poured concrete houses externally insulated (grant funded) over the last 12 months on Lewis and all I have seem have got a dash finish. It will be interesting to see how they stand up to algae growth over time compared to the smooth renders.
    • CommentAuthorTimber
    • CommentTimeFeb 21st 2014
     
    Posted By: Chris P BaconWas just looking at an episode of Grand Designs from last year about a house in Wales that used UK grown Japanese Larch that seemed to be very tough and needed no treatment to stand up to the elements. Would be worth taking a look at if they are going down that road.


    Larch isn't actually that durable (slightly to moderately durable) and that whole episode was a bit of a joke really.
  24.  
    Posted By: Timber
    Posted By: Chris P BaconWas just looking at an episode of Grand Designs from last year about a house in Wales that used UK grown Japanese Larch that seemed to be very tough and needed no treatment to stand up to the elements. Would be worth taking a look at if they are going down that road.


    Larch isn't actually that durable (slightly to moderately durable) and that whole episode was a bit of a joke really.
    Oh my, was someone puffing it up in order to sell all that UK grown Japanese Larch "Super-timber"?
    • CommentAuthorJonti
    • CommentTimeFeb 22nd 2014
     
    Posted By: Timber
    Larch isn't actually that durable (slightly to moderately durable) and that whole episode was a bit of a joke really.


    Yet we have some larch clad outbuildings around here some of which have been good for the last 60+ years. I think it is more to do with allowing the cladding to remain dry.

    Jonti
    • CommentAuthorjamesingram
    • CommentTimeFeb 22nd 2014 edited
     
    Posted By: willie.macleodPosted By: jamesingram

    they do some dash/spar type finishes for thincoat , I think these would fair better in exposed locations rather than single colour light finishes.


    Just thinking, there have been quite a lot of poured concrete houses externally insulated (grant funded) over the last 12 months on Lewis and all I have seem have got a dash finish. It will be interesting to see how they stand up to algae growth over time compared to the smooth renders.

    I had in my head that dash etc. faired better than smooth render due to increase surface area allow moisture to wick away and dry quicker. Might well be completely the other way around . :confused: anyway always thought it as a more durable finish than flat render perhaps because it hides a multitude of sins
  27.  
    For what its worth, and I'm no expert, but I do live in an exposed west coast location.

    You'll get far more noise from a gable than a hipped roof or heat pump in Lewis. PH is all 'fine and dandy' but it's not actually that cold on the west coast so I'd be thinking wind turbine with the money you'll save and steer well clear of larch cladding. There's much been done here where I live, and after a few years it looks carp. As for the house on Skye, well, it looks great and made fine TV but its practicalities are not very 'west coast' savvy. A house in this locale needs to have the car park immediately next to the door and a wood shed within inches of the stove.

    Cheers, Paul
    • CommentAuthordaserra
    • CommentTimeFeb 22nd 2014
     
    It also resists micro cracking better and the exposed aggregate is harder than exposed cement "filler" which is what you get more of with a smooth render, although this can be mitigated by sponging after to expose the sand grains.
    • CommentAuthorJonti
    • CommentTimeFeb 23rd 2014
     
    Posted By: camillitechafter a few years it looks carp.

    Cheers, Paul


    Paul,

    what do you mean by carp?

    Jonti
  30.  
    Swap the two middle letters around?

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