Green Building Forum - Slate Monopoly Thu, 18 Jun 2026 14:18:29 +0100 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 Slate Monopoly https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=205510#Comment_205510 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=205510#Comment_205510 Tue, 15 Jul 2014 09:22:12 +0100 Triassic
I now find that there is only one quarry within the National Park and hence a supply monopoly. Is it right that the planners should be imposing an absolute requirement to buy Lord Soansos very expensive and monopolistic slate, what ever happen to the competition rules?]]> Slate Monopoly https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=205512#Comment_205512 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=205512#Comment_205512 Tue, 15 Jul 2014 09:31:59 +0100 Nick Parsons ]]> Slate Monopoly https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=205537#Comment_205537 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=205537#Comment_205537 Tue, 15 Jul 2014 17:43:22 +0100 stevethefarm Slate Monopoly https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=205556#Comment_205556 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=205556#Comment_205556 Wed, 16 Jul 2014 07:31:55 +0100 fostertom Slate Monopoly https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=205560#Comment_205560 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=205560#Comment_205560 Wed, 16 Jul 2014 08:21:23 +0100 CWatters
http://planningguidance.planningportal.gov.uk/blog/guidance/use-of-planning-conditions/application-of-the-six-tests-in-nppf-policy/

Quote:

•A condition must not be imposed unless there is a definite planning reason for it, ie it is needed to make the development acceptable in planning terms.

•If a condition is wider in scope than is necessary to achieve the desired objective it will fail the test of necessity.
End Quote

You could argue that the condition is not "necessary" to make the application acceptable. For example I doubt the application could have been refused if you specified another slate that looked similar/identical to local slate. So requiring one sourced from within the national park would appear to fail at least one of the tests. Consider appealing the condition.

You should also check local planning policies - is there a general policy of requiring materials to be sourced locally for other reasons? Are they valid planning reasons?

If you won at appeal I'm pretty sure the appeal inspector would modify the condition so that you are required to submit samples of alternative slates for approval to the planners. You can expect them to be very fussy.]]> Slate Monopoly https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=205561#Comment_205561 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=205561#Comment_205561 Wed, 16 Jul 2014 08:26:42 +0100 CWatters
http://www.eryri-npa.gov.uk/visiting/hafod-eryri/new-summit-building/sourcing-materials

"Under European law the Authority cannot insist that local people use local materials only."

"6. The words European Law have been mentioned. Why didn’t the Authority insist that the contractor uses local stone?

This is a complex area but I will try to explain it. The Authority obtained independent expert legal advice. They advised the Authority that it could not under European Treaty principles specify to the contractor where he sources the building materials."

"8. But if the Authority cannot specify where stone comes from, it could come from anywhere.

True. The contractor has a budget for stone within his tender price and he can source from anywhere in the world. The stone for the roof, for example, is coming from Portugal...."]]> Slate Monopoly https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=205562#Comment_205562 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=205562#Comment_205562 Wed, 16 Jul 2014 08:31:25 +0100 db8000 the challenge to the condition by appeal seems most sensible, if the cost and time of such challenge fits with the development timeline!.]]> Slate Monopoly https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=205573#Comment_205573 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=205573#Comment_205573 Wed, 16 Jul 2014 11:03:39 +0100 Triassic Posted By: db8000if the cost and time of such challenge fits with the development timeline! Why must I, a simple sole, have to challenge a Public Body. Why aren't they complying with the rules? The further I'm getting into this whole self build malarkey the more I'm feeling the whole thing is a stitch up by various vested interests. I actually thought that the Government wanted more houses built and would be looking to simplify the whole process, but no!]]> Slate Monopoly https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=205609#Comment_205609 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=205609#Comment_205609 Wed, 16 Jul 2014 18:17:55 +0100 djh Posted By: CWattersOh boy...

http://www.eryri-npa.gov.uk/visiting/hafod-eryri/new-summit-building/sourcing-materials

"Under European law the Authority cannot insist that local people use local materials only."


An earlier paragraph looks even more germane:

"4. The use of granite for the building has caused some concern, particularly as the impression is that the National Park Authority insists that local people use local materials. Isn’t this double standards by the Authority?

"Under European law the Authority cannot insist that local people use local materials only. The Authority encourages people to use natural materials wherever possible and preferably from local sources. In the case of roofing slate, the Authority places a condition stipulating local slate or an equivalent in terms of colour, texture and weathering characteristics. Up to the 1980s it is true that the Authority required only Welsh slate but it lost a legal case and the advice that we received from solicitors in this case is that we would be in breach of European treaty principles if we stipulated in the contract that the contractor must use local materials only."

I think I'd certainly find a local solicitor that specializes in planning law and have a chat. :cry:]]> Slate Monopoly https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=205629#Comment_205629 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=205629#Comment_205629 Wed, 16 Jul 2014 22:13:38 +0100 Peter_in_Hungary :devil:]]> Slate Monopoly https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=205638#Comment_205638 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=205638#Comment_205638 Thu, 17 Jul 2014 07:24:45 +0100 Greenfish Posted By: Peter_in_HungarySo I'm left wondering who in the planning dept. has a relative with shares in the local slate quarry.Quite!

In reality no one is going to check the source of your building materials, you just need to ensure the end result looks like the local stuff. The LA do not monitor the construction process, they usually do not even check it is completed according to plan, it is down to a third party complaining.]]> Slate Monopoly https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=205659#Comment_205659 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=205659#Comment_205659 Thu, 17 Jul 2014 16:36:35 +0100 ferdinand2000
Or you could just ask the legal department.

F]]> Slate Monopoly https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=205662#Comment_205662 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=205662#Comment_205662 Thu, 17 Jul 2014 17:45:44 +0100 Nick Parsons Slate Monopoly https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=205664#Comment_205664 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=205664#Comment_205664 Thu, 17 Jul 2014 17:57:00 +0100 Triassic Posted By: Nick ParsonsDo you find that with slate Monopoly the houses and hotels last longer....? They do, but if you have to buy a new one they cost way more than a plastic one and there's only one supplier !]]> Slate Monopoly https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=205676#Comment_205676 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=205676#Comment_205676 Thu, 17 Jul 2014 19:02:50 +0100 Simon Still Posted By: Greenfish
Posted By: Peter_in_HungarySo I'm left wondering who in the planning dept. has a relative with shares in the local slate quarry.
Quite!

In reality no one is going to check the source of your building materials, you just need to ensure the end result looks like the local stuff. The LA do not monitor the construction process, they usually do not even check it is completed according to plan, it is down to a third party complaining.

This. Don't waste your time appealing it, just do what you need to do. Based on the advice above they'd be laughed out of court if they tried to enforce the condition.

However, at least get a quote for local supply. From a green perspective not transporting slate from China is a positive and it will help keep local people in employment.]]> Slate Monopoly https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=206405#Comment_206405 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=206405#Comment_206405 Sat, 02 Aug 2014 07:15:42 +0100 Triassic
Also is there a list of UK slate mines for those who want go buy British?]]> Slate Monopoly https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=206406#Comment_206406 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=206406#Comment_206406 Sat, 02 Aug 2014 07:24:35 +0100 SteamyTea http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04brrjl]]> Slate Monopoly https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=206422#Comment_206422 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=206422#Comment_206422 Sat, 02 Aug 2014 16:34:08 +0100 aa44
You might find that a specialist roofing supplier is both cheaper and more knowledgeable than a builders merchant. I'll whisper you where I got mine.]]> Slate Monopoly https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=206430#Comment_206430 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=206430#Comment_206430 Sat, 02 Aug 2014 19:17:06 +0100 borpin Posted By: TriassicAs part of my planning approval there is a requirement for a diminishing course slate roof using local green or local blue/grey slate "local being slate mined or quarried in the National Park". Good job planning departments are a new thing else we would still live in mud huts with straw roofs.....]]> Slate Monopoly https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=206437#Comment_206437 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=206437#Comment_206437 Sat, 02 Aug 2014 21:16:31 +0100 djh Posted By: borpinwe would still live in mud huts with straw roofs.....
Nah! It would have to be reed roofs. Straw roofs require an organized farming community!]]> Slate Monopoly https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=206448#Comment_206448 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=206448#Comment_206448 Sun, 03 Aug 2014 08:17:11 +0100 Triassic Posted By: borpinstraw roofs but only if you buy straw from Lord Soananso's farm.]]> Slate Monopoly https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=206455#Comment_206455 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=206455#Comment_206455 Sun, 03 Aug 2014 10:09:58 +0100 Yanntoe Slate Monopoly https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=206486#Comment_206486 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=206486#Comment_206486 Sun, 03 Aug 2014 16:42:38 +0100 Triassic Slate Monopoly https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=206498#Comment_206498 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=206498#Comment_206498 Mon, 04 Aug 2014 08:55:09 +0100 Yanntoe
About 50% original/reused, and 50% reclaimed.
Looks good - well, much much better than it did prior to the work.

If anything the re-claimed stuff looks "new" in contrast to the original, so certainly not sub standard in any way.

If I could post a picture I'd be happy to ......]]> Slate Monopoly https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=206500#Comment_206500 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=206500#Comment_206500 Mon, 04 Aug 2014 09:05:08 +0100 snyggapa
The builder commented that the reclaims were in much better condition than the original ones that we used - and he used the best of the original bunch.

If I remember I will try and dig out where we got them from - I have the paperwork in a drawer somewhere.]]> Slate Monopoly https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=207264#Comment_207264 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=207264#Comment_207264 Sun, 17 Aug 2014 20:31:34 +0100 snyggapa http://www.roofslates.com/ , we got reclaimed welsh slate. Builder was pleasantly surprised with the quality.

-Steve]]> Slate Monopoly https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=207283#Comment_207283 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12337&Focus=207283#Comment_207283 Mon, 18 Aug 2014 12:19:31 +0100 fostertom Posted By: Yanntoegreener than Burlington Green (there's a pun in there somewhere)You mean Burlington Bertie?]]>