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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

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    • CommentAuthorJT101
    • CommentTimeAug 9th 2014
     
    Hi everyone

    Can anyone point me to some very simple diagrams for good installation of windows

    I guess I'm mainly looking at:

    1) Timber frame (non passive house)
    2) Brick & Cavity (non passive house)
    3) Timber frame (passive house)
    4) Brick & Cavity (passive house)

    Many thanks
    • CommentAuthorwoodgnome
    • CommentTimeAug 9th 2014
     
    Google "lancaster cohousing"
    Lots of installation details for various wall types.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeAug 9th 2014
     
    How do you define good, good windows, good fixings, good weathering details, low U-values, low psi values,

    Any window fixed in the outside skin is by definition not good in my book, writing most of the UK at a stroke!
    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2014
     
    Posted By: tonyAny window fixed in the outside skin is by definition not good in my book
    Being at that point where we have planning permission and have just started to get into the detail, I find it difficult to find best practice. Ideally a best practice web site would be good, but lots of this stuff is only available behind a pay wall of some description.
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2014 edited
     
    Posted By: Triassic.................. I find it difficult to find best practice. Ideally a best practice web site would be good, but lots of this stuff is only available behind a pay wall of some description.

    Don't you pay the architect to provide just that sort of detail?
    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2014 edited
     
    Posted By: owlmanDon't you pay the architect
    Yep as you said pay and I'm not sure that all architects are the font of best practice!

    Nothing is free!
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2014
     
    My window details are and they are on my website, not drawn that well but there are photos too on there.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2014
     
    Posted By: JT101Can anyone point me to some very simple diagrams for good installation of windows

    There are a lot of details online for different window installations. But window installation seems to be one of the more difficult areas to find exactly what you need. The main problem is that it depends on what components you are using, what the surrounding components are as well as where you live and what your goals are. So there are a lot of possible variations. For example, when you say 'good' with regard to Passivhaus, I assume you mean - with least possible risk of any air leakage and with no thermal bridges and nominally zero psi value. But depending on the exact design of your house, you might be able to live with a slightly positive psi-value and save some cost. Or you might need a negative psi-value! And with regard to a non passive house, that's so ill-defined that there's no hope of finding a single meaning for 'good'.

    For Passivhaus, the best practice guide is the Passivhaus Details book. There are also various specific details published by product suppliers.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2014
     
    You can borrow my PH details book if you wish. They are all good details

    I prefer check reveals and lintels, almost never see check reveals to windows except in good houses.
    • CommentAuthorJT101
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2014
     
    Thanks everyone. Yeah, I figured as much. A friend is just having some new PVC double glazed units installed. I asked the guy who was installing them, and he said there are hundreds of variations, but of course he didn't know anything about the best way to install. He only knew that they were "ECO". I won't go into that one.

    Anyway, my point is that I'm either going to be dealing with Passive House, or normal buildings that have to meet the minimum code in the UK. So as you've rightly said, the passive house details book should cover all eventualities for passive house.

    But I guess I need to understand the general underlying principles.

    I usually see that the insulation always overlaps the frame on a passive house. So, despite the window units being passive house certified, the frames still are the cold bridge and need that extra insulation. So I get that.

    But for normal build, the opening of the brickwork is smaller than that of the inner leaf of blockwork and the frames have checked reveals, butting up to the outside brickwork.
    Or they are inline with the outer brickwork, so the opening is the same for brick & block.

    But what is the advantage of checked reveals. In effect, the brickwork overlaps the frame, much like the insulation in passive house. But how does this help? Surely this could even leak heat away quicker since the brick could get cold, and transfer heat from the frame faster.

    Thanks
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2014
     
    The block work should Never but up to the bricks. Sitting the window frame in the insulation layer is the best place for it, so is behind the outer skin.
    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2014
     
    Posted By: tonyPH details book
    Do you have the ISBN number for the book, or a link?
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2014
     
    978-3-211-29763-6
    • CommentAuthorSigaldry
    • CommentTimeAug 11th 2014
     
    Set the window frame in the insulation layer as Tony states, minimises thermal bridging + use an Insulated cavity closer.

    There's a dearth of good details with calculated psi values for normal timber frame I'm afraid.
    • CommentAuthorborpin
    • CommentTimeAug 11th 2014
     
    Having worked through this one I still feel a ply box fixed round the outside of the window (and sealed to it) followed by fixing the box to the frame provides the greatest degree of flexibility in terms of the location of the window inside to out. I'd agree it should be in the insulation layer with check reveals. I will shortly finish my windows with an EDPM tape between the check reveal/render stop bead and the window frame to limit thermal bridge at that point.
    • CommentAuthorJT101
    • CommentTimeAug 11th 2014
     
    Ok, so if you go tother last page on this site http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/masonry_internal_wall_insulation_illustrations.pdf

    It is a detail for checked reveals. Is this what you are talking about Tony?

    If so, how is this thermally better than the detail prior to it on page 32?

    And secondly, how do you easily build such a thing. Trying to make an opening in the brickwork smaller than in the blockwork would a pain in the butt
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeAug 11th 2014 edited
     
    Nope a check reveal is one where the inside opening is larger than the outside on so that insulation can run round into the reveal,

    Think how insane it is to put a piece of metal ove a window that extends from inside to outside!
    • CommentAuthorborpin
    • CommentTimeAug 12th 2014 edited
     
    Posted By: JT101And secondly, how do you easily build such a thing. Trying to make an opening in the brickwork smaller than in the blockwork would a pain in the butt
    Why? Standard detail in Scotland (worse weather). Only thing I'd add is that the windows should be set back inwards by 5mm or so to allow an edpm foam seal so the blockwork does not actually come in contact with the window frame (and put the window in a plybox to support it and fix it to the inner leaf of any material).

    Are you building 2 skin block? Use a temporary ply box as a former or fit the windows as you go. Get the cill detail right though.
    • CommentAuthorJT101
    • CommentTimeAug 13th 2014
     
    So Borpin, you meant the epdm foam seal seperates the window from the brickwork, not the blockwork correct? This is a cavity wall, block on inner leaf and brick on outer leaf, as per this sketch http://www.thebreadcrumbtrail.org/gallery3/index.php/Misc-Travel/Eco-Living/Low-Energy-Buildings_001/Window-detail

    From what I understand, there are only two countries in Europe that build cavity walls with brick and block in line. UK, and Holland. The rest use a checked reveal as you suggested.
    And is it correct, that the main reason for doing this is A) that you can get a better weatherproof seal, such as the EPDM rubber, and B), so that you can easily insulate around the edge of the window as Tony suggested?
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeAug 13th 2014
     
    Don't really want to get involved in obsolete cavity walls, but just curious, how do you make the check at the head/lintol, as it involves different coursing heights between inner and outer skins?
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeAug 13th 2014 edited
     
    I used separate lintels on the inside and outside, you used to be able to get check lintels but likely special order now.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeAug 13th 2014
     
    Sure, but those separate lintols sit on different coursing planes. How to do that?
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeAug 13th 2014
     
    Easy 225 higher in lounge, 75 higher in other rooms, basement outside skin is 300 higher outside. Easy with separate lintels
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeAug 13th 2014
     
    What, you mean the 'check' width, which may be what - 20mm? - on the jambs, is 225/75/300 wide (or rather, high) at the head? Doesn't that leave you with a missing bit of inner wall face?
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2014
     
    I did 25 on the block work, 50 in the cavity that was 300 wide, then 75 more beside the frame in th cavity to sort bridging, same above. In the lounge there were roller shutters above the window and the void was filled in with stud work insulation and plasterboard, remarkably even with the changes of background and the use of splayed reveals there has been no cracking, partly attributable to the remarkably stable temperatures inside the house.
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