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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
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    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeAug 25th 2014
     
    When I visit the nice new food store that just opened near us it is so very cold in there that I now take my coat with me even in summer!

    Floor 11C walls 12.5 rising to 13.3 at head height, complained, saw a child with a hat and scarf two weeks ago, staff all wear coats and one wears gloves!

    It has air cooling and plenty of cool displays and a couple of small horizontal freezers.

    I have to help pay for all the energy wasted on cooling.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeAug 25th 2014 edited
     
    Was it fresh produce.
    It may be cheaper to extend the shelf life by cooling rather than by land filling. A kWh of electricty is very cheap after all, especially compared to a kWh of food. At least a 10:1 ratio.
    Where the coolers exhausting into the building or to outside?

    But I was at the Landsend Hotel yesterday, I had to move because the draft from the air conditioning was was too cold.
    I can understand why they have it as they have a large conservatory that probably gets too hot when the sun shows itself. But they have outside seating as an alternative.
    I think they could get around this problem with a bit better control though.
    • CommentAuthorrhamdu
    • CommentTimeAug 27th 2014
     
    If the shop is well insulated, the cooling won't waste a lot of energy. It will merely violate the Shops, Offices and Railway Premises Act.

    The wasteful shops are the ones where cool air cascades out of the chillers while at the same time, hot air is blasted out of ceiling grilles (incidentally baking the 'non-perishable' foods on the upper shelves).

    The only reason shops are like this is that retail 'experts' say the chilled shelves should be open, to encourage customers to buy. I don't see why all chilled food should not get the frozen-food treatment: either put it in open-top chests or in cupboards with closing doors.
    • CommentAuthordb8000
    • CommentTimeAug 27th 2014
     
    My local Tesco convenience store is really cold. There are open fridges round 2 sides of the shop. It's unpleasantly cold and must cost a fortune. I was thinking of complaining yesterday.
    Either they don't think about it or have made a considered decision that they'll sell more with open displays rather than closed, compared to what the electricity will cost.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeAug 27th 2014 edited
     
    We have a drinks cooler at work, it has cold shelves. The cooling is done by conduction through the drink container and then the shelf rather than though the air in a cooler. Not sure how much difference it makes. It does have a thermal blind that you pull up at night.
    What is odd, and I have seen this in loads of commercial/retail coolers is a number of Fluorescent tubes in the cooler. One cake chiller I know has 4, 125 W tubes in it, 500 W of heat to be taken away.
    • CommentAuthorSeret
    • CommentTimeAug 27th 2014
     
    Posted By: db8000
    Either they don't think about it or have made a considered decision that they'll sell more with open displays rather than closed, compared to what the electricity will cost.


    I strongly suspect the latter. A big operator like Tesco will have done a cost/benefit on it. Supermarket chains are in the logistics business, scrutinising detail like that is bread and butter for them.
    • CommentAuthorrhamdu
    • CommentTimeAug 27th 2014
     
    Have they costed in staff off work with chilblains? And customers rushing to the checkout with half-empty baskets before the shivering becomes uncontrollable?
    • CommentAuthornbwilding
    • CommentTimeAug 27th 2014
     
    Friends from Germany were surprised how cold our supermarkets are. Their's are warmer and I doubt it affects self life significantly.

    I suspect that it's unnecessary psycho-tricks - by cooling the customers as well as the food, it helps persuade the subconscious that the food must be fresh.
    • CommentAuthoratomicbisf
    • CommentTimeAug 27th 2014
     
    Another thing that really bugs me is shops that insist on leaving the doors wide open in winter and then waste fully blasting out the heating. Again it's management wanting to be 'inviting'. It really needs some regulation to enforce some common energy saving sense but that would probably bring whinging about red tape and the thin end of the wedge of Communism etc ;)

    Ed
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeAug 27th 2014
     
    Or we feel hungrier when cold, but then the social sciences are full of unrepeatable experiments and nonsense.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeAug 27th 2014
     
    Re keeping the doors closed, a lot of the better businesses are signed up to this, http://www.closethedoor.org.uk/ my shop is too but they dont seem to know or understand at my local branch
  1.  
    I know Tesco opened their first supermarket designed to German PHI standards in Tramore Co. Waterford Ireland a while back, they say that it uses 45% less energy than a comparable "normal" store.

    Not sure if they plan more, but it seems like a good idea.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeAug 27th 2014
     
    I was very interested in the shops, offices and railway premiers is act, it would seem to that they are in breach of the low temperatures stated in that, does shopping count as intense physical activity, certainly shop assistant, checkout person does not.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeAug 27th 2014
     
    Does it apply in summer, any law experts about?
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeAug 27th 2014
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offices,_Shops_and_Railway_Premises_Act_1963 says it's largely replaced by the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974.

    http://www.hse.gov.uk/temperature/faq.htm

    16°C, it seems.

    “These regulations only apply to employees they do no apply to members of the public for example with regard temperature complaints from customers in a shopping centre or cinema.”
    • CommentAuthorSeret
    • CommentTimeAug 28th 2014
     
    It's a common misconception that there's an official min or max temperature. HSE issues guidelines, but they're to be taken with a pinch of salt and have to include a subjective assessment of the environment and work being done. There's certainly no entitlement to down tools and walk out of the office when the thermometer hits a specific number as some people seem to think.
    • CommentAuthorrhamdu
    • CommentTimeAug 29th 2014
     
    The cold alarms that Social Services dish out to elderly people go off at 17C.
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