Green Building Forum - Top Twenty design features to be avoided

Top Twenty design features to be avoided

rhamdu — Tue, 30 Sep 2014 10:19:35 +0100

Posted By: markocosic"To all the folks suggesting we drop baths: where do you suggest people should wash their children?"

In the shower. Stand them in the corner (of your 1700 x 900 shower tray) and hose the little buggers down.

When they can reach the (thermostatic) controls they're big enough to shower on their own. With digital showers (remote controls) this is about the same age that they can walk without smacking their heads on the floow regularly.

Else use a washing up bowl in the shower. One can buy fancy looking versions labelled baby bath. One can also use a mop bucket.

Actually that's a pretty comprehensive answer.

I will have to wait until I am a grandparent, to try the mop bucket

By the way I am not against installing a bath if you have the space and the money. But it saddens me when people (I won't say designers) automatically put a bath in, stick some crap shower over it, and throw away the chance of simply having a decent shower in the same space.

Top Twenty design features to be avoided

SteamyTea — Tue, 30 Sep 2014 10:48:26 +0100

Posted By: rhamduThe old boarding-school solution is (freely-movable) individual tubs in a wet room

What sort of boarding school did you go to. We had cold showers after rugby, luke warm bathwater after older kids had used it. Matron standing guard, that strange chemistry teacher looking on too. All very worrying as we had a yew tree in the grounds.

I hated boarding school.

Top Twenty design features to be avoided

owlman — Tue, 30 Sep 2014 11:27:47 +0100

Posted By: SteamyTea....... All very worrying as we had a yew tree in the grounds.

Was that planted to placate the Pagan staff members, stand watch over the bodies of the buried errant pupils, or to supply the chemistry teacher with berries for his potions.
It's the fires in the nearby woods late at night that you should really have been worried about.

Top Twenty design features to be avoided

gustyturbine — Tue, 30 Sep 2014 13:17:31 +0100

Extractor fans.
Trickle vents (done earlier)

Top Twenty design features to be avoided

borpin — Wed, 01 Oct 2014 07:34:16 +0100

Level access for every house
Accessible shower/toilet for every house
Suspended wooden ground floors

Turn this on it's head, what *should* every new house have ....

South facing roof to maximise mandatory PV installation.

Top Twenty design features to be avoided

haplessDiyer — Thu, 02 Oct 2014 20:26:52 +0100

what's objectionable about draining boards?

Top Twenty design features to be avoided

Gotanewlife — Thu, 02 Oct 2014 20:33:07 +0100

Means you're wasting water and energy to heat it by washing up 'manually': verboten!

Top Twenty design features to be avoided

marktime — Thu, 02 Oct 2014 23:09:48 +0100

Also facilitates impeccable kitchens, "nothing to see here, move along!"

Top Twenty design features to be avoided

tony — Thu, 02 Oct 2014 23:26:31 +0100

To be avoided. Under-slung sinks

Top Twenty design features to be avoided

Chris P Bacon — Fri, 03 Oct 2014 06:21:37 +0100

@Gotanewlife You never answered as to what your objection to gravel driveways is.

Top Twenty design features to be avoided

Gotanewlife — Fri, 03 Oct 2014 09:25:16 +0100

I know v busy! They are the cheapest option, which is why I have them. I hate them because once laid they settle and you need more gravel within a few months, put too much and ladies in heels can't use them, then you have to put more gravel down every couple of years (there must be a little animal that takes 200 pieces of gravel away every night). The gravel gets everywhere even over low boarders, high boarders are trip hazards and difficult for lawn mowers, sack trolleys and wheelbarrows (all of which I use all the time). My son's Ape (think tuk-tuk) has narrow wheels and quickly leaves groves - even in the stabilized stuff (which is dirty so not good for places where people often walk). You can put a landscaping fabric down but it changes nothing, after a while the crud builds up and the weeds grow and lots of them, so that means weedkilling, which I hate - more weeds grow in gravel than any other alternative. Any type of slope results in migration of gravel in v heavy rain. It is easy to wheel spin or skid a car esp with trailer or in reverse making more mess. Stimming anywhere near gravel when cars are present is v bad for paintwork. Like I said I am busy and so this is just a short list. I have lots of gravel: I hate gravel

Top Twenty design features to be avoided

owlman — Fri, 03 Oct 2014 09:37:31 +0100

I once had a client who had laid very thick gravel onto a membrane and had simply used the gravel as a driveway leveller onto a uneven soil surface; (WRONG), he had omitted to prepare a decent properly compacted level, blinded, stone base first and then just a thin layer of crushed stone/gravel on top. The result was like trying to wade through deep wet snow. I hated going there every day, lugging heavy tools and materials through this bl...y mire.
I'm sympathetic to your hatred Gotanewlife.

Top Twenty design features to be avoided

Chris P Bacon — Fri, 03 Oct 2014 09:59:24 +0100

I ask because I have a good crushed stone base in, laid over geotextile which has been there since we poured the foundations so 2Â½ years old now and well compacted. I am debating what to use now for a finished surface.

I want to use something than will drain naturally and not create run off so obviously want to avoid any hard surface, tarmac, cobblelock etc.

The choices are pretty limited....

Top Twenty design features to be avoided

djh — Fri, 03 Oct 2014 11:40:42 +0100

Posted By: owlmanused the gravel as a driveway leveller onto a uneven soil surface

Our landlord just converted the small front graden (6m x 6m?) of our rental house from lawn to gravel. They chopped down a few bushes, vaguely levelled it all, covered it with terram and then turned up with some bags of gravel in their pickup. Then they went away and came back with another load of bags. Then it all went quiet for a couple of days and a lorry with a hiab arrived and dumped two big bags of gravel. That covered it. So that's 3.5 tons instead of the half a ton or so they'd initially reckoned on. Usually he seems a sensible chap.

Several local dogs (or big cats?) have already christened their new toilet. Great!

Top Twenty design features to be avoided

Gotanewlife — Fri, 03 Oct 2014 14:29:44 +0100

And you can't sweep it, so when I have my annual 10 tonnes of wood delivered I end up with a big pile of bark et al mixed up with equal parts gravel because one has to rake it. And since you can't sweep it all the shrubs, oak trees and, worst, pine trees dump needles, leaves and crud which quickly covers the gravel, breaking down very slowly to produce compost for weeds. And I bought large white and now the local quarry only makes pink ish so I can't buy white other than fine white anywhere within 20 miles, but perhaps a lot further.

Chris, deal with the run-off and put some hard surface down!

Top Twenty design features to be avoided

Peter_in_Hungary — Fri, 03 Oct 2014 14:43:51 +0100

Posted By: Chris P BaconI ask because I have a good crushed stone base in, laid over geotextile which has been there since we poured the foundations so 2Â½ years old now and well compacted. I am debating what to use now for a finished surface.

Wot about ...good crushed stone....well compacted.

Top Twenty design features to be avoided

Simon Still — Fri, 03 Oct 2014 21:32:32 +0100

Come on people - some justification for your hates so that those of us who are considering them know why we shouldn't have them.

"To be avoided. Under-slung sinks" ? Why

"gravel as a driveway" I spent a few years growing up in a house that had a thinish layer of gravel over tar. In summer the tar melted, gravel stuck to shoes, in house. Just horrible. Avoid.

"what's objectionable about draining boards?"

I really don't get this one. I've tried living without and just doesn't work for me - there are regularly pans too large/dirty to go in the dishwasher that need to be washed up by hand. To clean up the kitchen after cooking needs a bit of hot soapy water on a cloth - while you've got that you may as well wash a few things up in it. They need somewhere to dry. There are things (kitchen knives, delicate glassware) that are not dishwasher safe - they need somewhere to drain.

Top Twenty design features to be avoided

tony — Fri, 03 Oct 2014 21:36:26 +0100

Under slung sinks get deadly grotty and unhygienic under the worktop, it is very difficult to clean and all but impossible to see that it needs cleaning, eventually they fall off too.

Top Twenty design features to be avoided

SteamyTea — Fri, 03 Oct 2014 22:35:19 +0100

I have never looted to closely at the dishwasher v hand washing data.
Is it water usage or energy usage that is meant to be greater, or both?
Commercial dishwasher get really hot, probably 90Â°C+
Washing in a sink is probably less than 55Â°C
Though some people I know seem to think that a constantly running hot tap is the only way to wash up

Top Twenty design features to be avoided

Gotanewlife — Fri, 03 Oct 2014 23:02:47 +0100

I agree with you Simon. No draining board is like that other fantasy only washing hands with cold water, both are are quite feasible for the neurotic but utterly impractical in every conceivable way.......IMO of course and I'm bound to get a bite or two.....

Couldn't agree more with underslung sinks BUT I do think they look great and so it is all about execution - the right size hole in the granite/wood, decent make of sink to minimise flexing and, most importantly, overkill on the support...and leave off on the cheap trade silicone too. However I can't fix mine properly without taking of the huge conjoined pieces of granite so I'm just going to have to bodge it somehow 'cos, as Tony predicted, it has fallen off (well slides everywhere after only 2 years).

Top Twenty design features to be avoided

marktime — Fri, 03 Oct 2014 23:28:50 +0100

Well here's one justification for dishwashers v. hand washing. I'm sure there are many more and usually they come to the same conclusion.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/green-living-blog/2010/aug/19/carbon-footprints-dishwasher-washing-up

There's nothing neurotic in thinking through how to combine a kitchen, dining, living space so that you are not looking at drying mugs, dishes, etc., forever cluttering up a draining board. Look NOW at your draining board and tell me it is clear! O.K. you don't have to tell me, I've seen too many not to know that the majority will have crockery of some sort drying away.

You do require to become a little less precious about your cutlery/glassware and invest in an efficient dishwasher that provides total flexibility in loading. We have a Miele and it's the bees knees. I'd defy anyone to present a family cooking utensil that wouldn't go into this beast. And be washed to perfection, employing a variety of programmes that range from 40Âº C to 75Âº C.

And before we sit down at table to eat, which is what we do for every meal, the worktop is cleared, all pots and pans into the dishwasher and the surface wiped clear. Pure harmony, which has convinced me that draining boards are the devil's spawn. Have a nice day.

Top Twenty design features to be avoided

Gotanewlife — Sat, 04 Oct 2014 00:07:08 +0100

No, no, we always use a full size dishwasher, goes on every day...full (as in really full) much better than washing them up manually, but no room for all the pots and pans and casserole dishes as well, let alone roasting sheets and wooden handled things, salad spinners are huge. And we always wash up and dry up immediately (after eating), living as we do in an open plan space. All our cooking utensils go in of course except the wooden spatulas and chop sticks etc etc. We bought special size wines and water glasses to maximise space and I always drink beer from a bottle!

In simple terms we mostly cook everything from fresh, we love to cook and the majority of our evening meals' washings up could not all even go into an empty dishwasher - and it already has breakfast and lunch in it, nowhere near full enough for a wash at that point.

I am happy for you that you can get all your washing up into one dishwasher, but for most: forget it. Or maybe I am the unusual one and most go with one pot meals or re-heat convenience foods; in truth I wouldn't know .

Top Twenty design features to be avoided

marktime — Sat, 04 Oct 2014 00:19:39 +0100

Hey! I live in Spain. One pot meals? Re-heat convenience food? Go wash your mouth out this instant Gotanewlife!

Top Twenty design features to be avoided

haplessDiyer — Sat, 04 Oct 2014 04:54:35 +0100

As far as energy goes I have no dishwasher and usually don't use hot water to wash up - i rely on the hot water from cooking and rinse in cold. Usually once a week i have to use hot to wash other stuff up that needs some hot or has built up. I'm certain i save energy compared to a dishwasher although i must use more water. I think dishwashers also make people very careless about using more stuff than they need - have a drink, put it in the dishwasher, have another drink 5 mins later, put that in.

As for aesthetics, a bit of crockery on the draining board looks homely. Preferable to a serial killer's spotless kitchen to me!

Top Twenty design features to be avoided

SteamyTea — Sat, 04 Oct 2014 08:12:07 +0100

What is wrong with 'one pot cooking'.
Boil pasta, let it drain in colander, put sauce in pan, heat that up, put pasta in and stir.
Put on plate, wash up pan, lid, colander and wooden spoon.
Eat and wash plate.

Can do the same with rice dishes.

I got sauce pan, colander, lid, plate and wooden spoon on drainer. Hardly seems worth putting them away

Top Twenty design features to be avoided

Gotanewlife — Sat, 04 Oct 2014 09:58:13 +0100

My, my we are learning a lot about each other aren't we.

Top Twenty design features to be avoided

marktime — Sat, 04 Oct 2014 10:31:32 +0100

Ah! SteamyTea, the answer lies in the sauces.

To stay on topic: front door letterboxes

Top Twenty design features to be avoided

owlman — Sat, 04 Oct 2014 13:39:56 +0100

You could of course save more washing up energy Steamy by eating the Spag-Bog direct from the pan,- no plate, you could even use the wooden spoon, saving again.
Neck the beer bottles too, or the Chianti, no glasses required.
In fact why bother with the bl..dy kitchen at all you could do it all on a camping gas burner.

Top Twenty design features to be avoided

SteamyTea — Sat, 04 Oct 2014 13:43:31 +0100

Posted By: owlmanyou could do it all on a camping gas burner

I quite often do when camping

Top Twenty design features to be avoided

bot de paille — Sat, 04 Oct 2014 14:02:55 +0100

I really dont like the single bloc kitchen mixer taps that swivel near the base. They always come loose at some point.

I will never ever have one.