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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
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  1.  
    Right then:

    Part A - Ground Floor Kitchen / Open Plan Area

    So my insulation is now on order (3" PIR), arriving Friday. It will be covering an area of 8m x 3.75m, with an exposed perimeter of 8m + 3.75m

    Can someone advise on a few practical install tips?

    1. What thickness upstands? I intended using offcuts for this and cut to size once the screed has set. The screed depth will be 65-75mm

    2. I intend to use 15mm barrier pipe (hep20). Is there a preferred layout pattern? I assume at this area I would be better off running two loops? There is a set of French patio doors in the centre of the 3.75m external wall does this make a difference?

    3. The proposed corner for controls, manifolds etc will be out of sight, do I just leave say a 500mm pipe above the screed level for any joins etc?

    4. Best controls for the UFH? Slab temperature?

    5. Best clips for holding down the pipe?





    Part B - Bathroom

    2 x 2 attached to joists, 1" ply, 3" PIR, 1" biscuit mix, 1" WSB, tile straight on to WSB

    1. how do I control the bathrrom slab temp. considering it will be different temp. to the kitchen below but on the same zone?

    Thanks
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeOct 1st 2014
     
    A 1. 35 or 40mm remove plaster first. 2. s pattern up and down each zone, pipes equally spaced pipes closer together across doors? 3. yes but I would pressure test it before screed (join to mains water 4. thermocouple probe 5. I lay an A142 mesh and tie the pipes to that no clips needed, raise mesh 5mm

    B thermocouple probe to stop floor getting too hot and a thermostat, needs designing nice for best results use a separate zone and manifold and pump
  2.  
    Plaster already off, s pattern sounds good and simple.

    Any need to pressure test if it is in one continuous loop and brand new?

    A142 mesh? If i use that can I put this into EPS70 or am I better off with EPS100? 1/3 of the room is built up using EPS the other 2/3 is PIR

    okay, noted on the switches. How deep does this need to go in? Drill post screeding? Centre of room?
  3.  
    just googled that mesh and it is expensive mind circa £150 for my project, won't the screed suffice as is?
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeOct 1st 2014
     
    Should be £30 per sheet for 4.8 x 2.4 try to get away with two sheets!

    I would pressure test, horrid if pipe has a hole and this is rare but not unknown

    mesh is OK on eps do you have a dpm?
  4.  
    Yes DPM will be under the insulation

    Do I really need £60 - 90 of steel when I could get reinforced screed with fibres?

    Also I need to build up 7" in one area, would you suggest 2"/2"/3" or 4"/3"?
    • CommentAuthorcjard
    • CommentTimeOct 1st 2014
     
    My reading of it left me with the impression that the mesh was there purely as a retaining device for the pipes, which might mean you can cut it into strips rather than meshing the whole area - it's just soething light, rigid enough to kep a few pipes braoadly flat and bent into S shapes while the screed goes off around it. I doubt the guy who mentioned it intended it to lend any anti-crack properties to the screed?
  5.  
    I'm sure UFH clips would do just that though wouldnt't they? as that's what they are designed for surely?

    I'm sure I'd use less than £60 of clips?
    • CommentAuthorjamesingram
    • CommentTimeOct 1st 2014 edited
     
    Mesh lifts pipe to higher in the screed . Surrounding the pipe , giving better performance in response time and heat spread . It also strengthens the screed. I alway use mesh if its acceptable to the client. Laying pattern google 'ufh counter flow ' all the way round the outside then circle in @400mm to center .return back between pipe (for 200mm spacing) for ashp use 150mm spacing or less allowing lower flow rate maximising ashp eff.
    Divide area in circuits of 100 linear m max (use 120m coils) or less for 100m coils.
    Plenty of layout and spacing advise on supplier sites
  6.  
  7.  
    Counterflow sorry
  8.  
    what mesh do you recommend? thanks

    What about piping? I was advised to use hep20 and nothing else...
  9.  
    Pipes pretty much all the same. Speedfit invented plastic fittings . Any big brand will hopefully have quality control to avoid litigation. Unless of course you go for the expensive metal lined stuff etc.
    Mesh , any light grade, a142 or lighter
  10.  
    A98 may be cheaper but less common at merchant s
  11.  
    Also I need to build up 7" in one area, would you suggest 2"/2"/3" or 4"/3"?
  12.  
    Or use a tonne of stone dust or sand and lay 3" PIR on top?
  13.  
    Also, the heat emitter guide for heat pumps I have used suggests at 45c flow (during the coldest months based at design of -3c) for the pipe spacing to be less than or equal to 300mm using a tiled floor.

    The weather compensation function of my ASHP would automatically adjust the temperature up to a maximum of 45c flow.

    As the temperature needs to run the same as the radiators can I therefore go with 600mm spacing
    to centre then the return will make it 300mm?

    My maths isn't serving me right here but at 150mm spacing I'd require about 6 x 100m lengths of pipe? Is there a calculator somewhere to work this out?
    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeOct 2nd 2014 edited
     
    Posted By: VictorianecoI'd require about 6 x 100m lengths of pipe? Is there a calculator somewhere to work this out?
    I'm not sure why you have 6 pipes? 6 zones? If only one zone you need a single 600m lengthy of pipe and a decoiler!
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeOct 2nd 2014
     
    too much resistance to flow and water cooler by the end so cooler there too. better several zones and a manifold to balance them

    45 sounds way to high for a flow temperature

    2x 50m + 1x 75 better than using 100mm though I would go 1x 25 + 3 x 50mm
  14.  
    I thought that would be the case Tony, 45 flow is what I have designed the sytem on for the coldest period but in reality it will be a lot less due to the weather compensation function....

    It needs to be at the same temperature as the radiators which are restricted by size....

    Any idea on the 7" build up? i have gone for 4" + 3" on top? Sound okay?
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeOct 2nd 2014
     
    make good and sure that the base is well compacted all over and that it is exactly flat, then it will be OK the screed will get it all level
    • CommentAuthorjamesingram
    • CommentTimeOct 3rd 2014 edited
     
    Id say 200mm spacing max . 150mm better.
    in fact for heat pumps I've use 100mm spacing to good effect, allowing flow temps below 30 deg to be effect.
    • CommentAuthorringi
    • CommentTimeOct 3rd 2014
     
    Why not put in a mixing value + 2nd pump so that UFH can run cooler then the radiators?
  15.  
    yes ringi , usual setup is to blend down water in UFH
  16.  
    how do you do that? Easy to do?
  17.  
    How do you raise the mesh 5mm?

    Can you explain with a diagram how the mixing valve works and what it mixes with? I was planning to regulate the slab temperature so surely the water will never reach 22c in the Ufh circuit or it will run at 45c but not stay on long?
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeOct 5th 2014
     
    Broken tile
  18.  
    I guess it only needs one or two tiles to be raised during pour as it set at that height anyway.

    Another query, how would I form a stud wall knowing that there is UFH pipes present?
  19.  
    Re. Wall . glue floor plate and rely on tension of studs between floor and ceiling plate
    Mesh. Be careful of depth you dont want the pipe to high. If you lay the mesh the right way this will bring the pipe up
    About 10mm once tied to the top.
    Blend valve . Search single room ufh unit . For info. Simply you mix the return from ufh in with the flow through the valve to get the lower ufh flow temp. Like a tmv valve
  20.  
    Could I just not use a tmv?

    The glue sounds good!
   
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