Because we use biofuels for power rather than burning coal, oil etc which would release far more Co2

Hi, I think the issue with bio fuel is going to be land for food crops vs land for bio fuel. As the land owner invariably has a bigger car than the field worker you can see where it’ll go.

That said Volvo and Saab are both offering cars running on what they call bio or flexi fuel listed as E85, as it has 15% ethanol. Apparently the fuel companies can already add in a bit (5%) of ethanol to fuel to make it go further. Ethanol has more oomph in it. As of April this year the Government is offering a 2% discount on company car tax rate based on the CO2 level if the car can run on bio. Its not that freely available about 11 outlets in the UK.
Just googled up some info on it. Interested in other peoples thoughts on this.

Cheers, Mike up North

I don't see growing food for cars to be a sustainable proposition. Grain and soft commodity prices are up about 50% over the last 12 months which is why everything is going up so rapidly in the supermarket. I've heard reports (can't remember where, sorry) that the percentage of household disposable income going on food will increase from 10 to 25% over the next decade.

Do we really want to add to the problem by trying to feed cars as well as a world population that is growing in numbers and wealth, so eating more meat? It is madness when you start to consider the implications for land use (i.e. further habitat destruction) and the likelihood of the poor going hungry while obese Westerners pour food derived fuel into their SUV tanks.

I'm all for turning agricultural, industrial and domestic waste products into fuels. That is sensible idea but it isn't going to be a replacement for oil. Electrification of transport has to be the best solution (and less travelling). Cars don't have to be built to run on liquid fuels. We should change the design of the cars not try to find another liquid fuel substitute for oil whether it be biofuel or coal to liquids.

Biofuels have turned from an interesting small scale alternative, (Brazil have been running cars on alcohol derived from their sugar cane for decades), into a political tool by the US in order so they can keep their inefficient extravagant lifestyles. It's a fairly well known fact that there will never be anything like enough land to satisfy the need for fuel at the current rate, even if we didn't need the land to grow food, (let alone when China and India start reaping the material benefits of their industrialisation), and we are already seeing badly needed farm land in some poorer countries forceably turned over to biofuel crop production.

It's yet another example of politicians saying what people want to hear but leaving out the sometimes fairly obvious facts that prove it unworkable.

The best vehicle biofuel will be produced by algae and 'grown' in desert regions that are unsuited to food production. There has been plenty of research over the past 30 years on this and just needs to be implemented on a large industrial scale. Gets around all the food vs fuel arguments. Sadly the UK won't be self-sufficient in this but the US could do it easily. A small fraction of Arizona could produce all the US needs and more.

Compressing air is a very expensive route, unless you develop a wind driven compressor !.... food for thought(maybe you could install a turbine on the roof, park in a windy place and recharge the tank ?). all this bio-fuel talk is crazy in my eyes, We just have to do with less and learn to stop raping and pillaging the world so that we can have an 'affluent society' and 'economic growth' . just been watching the hype about Virgin using bio-fuel on a test flight..... so they then can justify more growth in air travel.
tom

Hi,

Cwatters, come on overnight? these cars are aimed at the average commuter, they will miss a days maybe three recharge, and at moment go through a tank of fuel every week-ish. That makes them ideal for a reachahe to last 100-200k, For Petrol heads, an electric engine on each wheel will deliver more bhp than a petrol engine can ever give. Google it. Then only missing element is the noise, sadly i have been in a good range of fast cars and been held back into the seat, the feeling of zooming around stuff is what most want. less noise? More reaction to pedle, even better.

ted, I would love to see it. However I have read of a lot firms not finding this economically viable. I hope that GM backing the Koosa venture captial projects in the US with algae do proove true and workable. Several sci-fi books I have read would come true -eg James Blish.

go on StuartB , PaulT and Chris Wardle.

Henry Norton, google the mineral use of soya, sugar cane in Brazil. Soya part of the bio fuel mix now, uses a lot of the earths minerals, hence it's moniker as wonder food.

Bio fuels: from what I have read, oil drum based and a few searches, beyond look like a non starter, unless they combine permaculture traits it is doomed. That, 'doomed' carries a lot too many connotations for me, not a word I would normally use. A lot of firms talk about using all the organic mass from growing, now as someone who has gardened all my life, garden or not(most the time), I know that feeding the ground is very important. Feeding back last years leaf fall, bonfire, anything and everything as compost is important. So these companies plan to take all grows and turn it to feul? Then expect the ground to remain fertile. hah! They think they can shove fertiliser back in and see it all work just fine. Most recent studies show we PKN mix in fertiliser is not enough. Usual human thought, that we know enough, the are side effects, nothing grows. I suspect until we know the perfect fertiliser, industrailising permaculture(some how) is the best way ahead.
end rant ;-)
Bit late now to worry about CO2. Ice is melting a bit too fast, now. Lovely warm winter. Hope you do not live by the sea in 50 years. My aunt has a nice big house next to the sea, in my life I have seen the beach recede quite happily; one of the reasons I am now concerned and have a green outlook. A bit forth right maybe.