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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
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    • CommentAuthorJulian
    • CommentTimeMar 23rd 2007 edited
    This sort of overlaps with my Tyvek question in products.
    Timber frame extension, roof trusses at 600 centres, reclaimed concrete double roman 50's, breather membrane.
    1. I want to use cloaked verge tiles - it seems sensible to avoid wet verges. But I don't see that many cloaked verges and wondered why? Anyone have any views on them?

    2.If I do use cloaked verge tiles could I use 150mm strips of WBP as an undercloak instead of the asbestos/cement type? I would guess there maybe less condesation risk from a piece of WBP than from a cement/asbestos undercloak.

    3. Plastic eaves protectors & plastic felt supports - is there an alternative or are they essential? All the plastic fittings are expensive. The existing roof has bitumen felt down over the fascia board - it's been there for years without miles of plastic and without any obvious deterioration.

    • CommentTimeMar 24th 2007
    I bet it's because builders are on a budget that they stick to the traditional standard tiles/cement/asbestos combination at the gables. Now plastic is popular because it's labour saving. I often use blue slates instead of asbestos, overlapped and then fill the gap between slate and tile with cement.

    WBP has a limited lifespan in wet conditions, it will rot, the glue that bonds it together is waterproof, the core is not, so unless you can paint and maintain every side and edge of it, you will be doomed! I think it would be a really bad idea to use it as undercloaking.
    Is condensation an issue outside the building?

    Are the plastic eaves protectors you refer to, those black plastic L sections approx 300mm wide? I do think they are reassuring because some roofing felts rot at the edges where it drapes into the gutter and water that has found it's way under the tiles can end up running onto the top edge of the fascia and down the back of it. I often find myself retro fitting 300mm black plastic dpc by sliding it under the damaged felt, when damage to the original felt has occured.
    • CommentAuthorJulian
    • CommentTimeMar 24th 2007
    Thanks Richy - take your point about WBP. I was only thinking it might work if I used cloaked verge tiles. That way they would extend down to cover the WBP so it would stay dry. What are "blue" slates? I could use slate in place of asbestos cement. The condensation I referred to could occurr on the underside of the undercloak where it sits on the timberframe panels - but I guess it's not significant. The eaves protectors are the ones you describe but using wide dpc instead seems like a good idea.
    • CommentTimeMar 25th 2007
    Blue slate = natural welsh slate, it can be bought as thin as asbestos and is often recycled. Is the timber frame on the external leaf of the construction? The undercloaking usually only comes into the external leaf, if that's masonary then there shouldn't be an issue. You could insulate between a slate or cement board undercloak with something thin, or protect the timber frame wit more dpc.
    • CommentAuthorJulian
    • CommentTimeMar 25th 2007
    Thanks Richy. I have some slate so I think that's the way I'll go - use reclaimed stuff and fix dpc between the top cord of the frame and the undercloak. The frame is single leaf with timber cladding externally.
    Have you used cloaked verge tiles? I have found it difficult to get any views about them in this or other forums!
    • CommentTimeMar 25th 2007
    I have a vague feeling I've seen them used on agricultural buildings in East Yorkshire? Aren't they a bit bulky looking? Where tiles meet the verge, usually every other one is a 1 1/2 width tile to allow for the bonding pattern, are these verge tiles in that format? How is the lap allowed for?
    • CommentAuthorJulian
    • CommentTimeMar 25th 2007
    They do look quite different to a bedded verge but they allow the verge to be dry. The tiles are double roman 50's so, with the bond being straight, they're all the same width. They overlap the verge and undercloak.
    Hi Julian, I have renewed several verges because of rotten battens 'protected' by wet verges. The problem with a wet [cement] verge is that it is porous and therefore directs moisture just where you don't want it- into the end grain of battens. Cement also expands and contracts with moisture as well as temperature fluctuations so often cracks exacerbating the problem.

    I don't like the look of plastic cloaks but they do resolve these problems
    • CommentAuthorJulian
    • CommentTimeMar 26th 2007
    Hi Mike. Thanks. That's my concern - having seen verges fail badly in the way you describe. I am not familiar with plastic cloaks as you describe - can you explain these to me a little please? Let's see if I can attach a picture of the cloaked verge tiles I was looking at:
    • CommentTimeMar 26th 2007 edited
    Tried using clay plain tiles as the undercloak under profiled roof tiles? Mortar-bedded face-down (i.e. any dishing upward) on top of the outer skin and hanging outward 2", batten ends resting on top as far as the outer skin face.
    I hate cloaked tiles - they sort of blur the crisp shadow line at the verge. Especially the cloaked concrete tiles.
    How about the traditional timber detail that has a 1" thick verge fascia, its top edge rising up past the edge of the tiles, with a 6" wide capping board fixed to the fascia's top edge, which covers the edge of the tiling by 4" and overhangs the fascia by 1"?

    The plastic ones look just like your picture.

    There is also a cheaper version which comes in 5m lengths and is fixed [trapped] under the battens. Looks like a sideways U in section. Tiles are slotted in as they are laid. I don't like these because of their rate of thermal expansion
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