I seem to be being told lots of different things about RHI, some quite contradictory. Wondered if someone here could straighten me out?

Two companies said I'd get domestic RHI for 20 years - I think that's commercial and residential is 7

Another source says new build homes must be fitted with a heat output meter that measures output and you're paid on what you generate (and apparently there are further complications registering a property that doesn't have an address on the royal mail database..) whereas one co I spoke to were adamant that you're paid on the potential output regardless of use

Noone has been able to comment on whether a conversion (of a building out of use so long it doesn't have an address) has the same set of rules applied as a new build, re the amounts paid/metering/calc'ed potential

I think it is 7 years worth of payment spread over 20 years.

The amount is set on a deemed usage, not what you actually use. By fitting a heat meter (and why would you not have one) they will know if they can pay you less.

I have not taken much notice of the RHI as it seems such an ill thought out scheme.

Just had my first payment through from the domestic scheme ... so 27 more to come (total of 28 quarterly payments, eg. it runs for 7 years). The scheme references the house's EPC, and in our case established that our requirement was for 40,000 kwh a year (includes DHW as well as space). We have a pellet boiler, so for seven years we will get 12.2p per unit, eg. a total of £35k to come in, and I think from memory it is index linked.

No cap on annual payments, and no metering.

The form filling was a real cinch, and although I question the government's mentality over the whole thing, I didn't want to look a gift horse in the mouth ... very pleased we've gone with it ...

''The scheme references the house's EPC, and in our case established that our requirement was for 40,000 kwh a year (includes DHW as well as space).''

Would you care to share *your* estimate of your annual requirement?!

Posted By: scrimperkwh

kWh

Is the price of pellets about what you get paid?

Posted By: scrimperGod I hope not! If we use, say, 5 tons of pellets per year ... that would be a cost of £1,100 odd ... vs. payments of £5,000/ year. I think the overall upshot is that we get free fuel for 7 years, plus the cost of the installation paid back ...

This is the absurdity of the scheme. I have a neighbour who has a very similar property to me (4 bed dormer bungalow). He has the minimum amount of insulation required, our is insulated to the proverbial hilt. Consequently his deemed energy requirement is much higher than ours, so he gets about £4K p.a. whereas we get £2K p.a. (i.e. £28K over 7 years compared to £14K over 7 years). Yes, agreed, we are using less wood pellets than him, but £14K's worth less?....uhm, I don't think so!!

You're right commercial is 20 years, domestic is 7 (though it's calculated over 20 years).

You are paid on the heat demand figure on the EPC. The difference between self build and retrofit is only that you have to have a green deal assessment for retrofit. If it counts as selfbuild then you only need an EPC.

All systems must be meter ready (and some will be retrofitted with meters for monitoring), but you only have to have a meter if you are also using a fossil fuel heating system, or you are not in the property for half the year or more.

Ofgem's website has lots of info and the @askdomesticRHI twitterfeed is helpful. We've also got a lot of RHI FAQs here: http://www.yougen.co.uk/blog-entry/2010/Domestic+renewable+heat+incentive'3A+your+questions+answered/

There are rules that state you must have any loft or cavity wall insulation in place if these are listed as suggested improvements in the EPC ... so you can't really play it that way ringi ...

so... I should put my TF up to building regs standards, get an EPC, apply for the RHI and then look at improving the insulation?

Posted By: slidersx200Íf that's the way your moral compass points, "middle class theft" if you ask me and no better than benefit fraud, but this is what "the system" provides for...

Exactly.

If I had kept quiet about all the extra IWI I have put in (above and beyond the basic requirements for loft and CWI) then the calculated heat demand for my property would have been far higher than it really is!

Woah. Intake of breath. This is novel for this board ... a little language creeping in ....

But it's an interesting moral question isn't it? I mean, if my EPC says I should use 40,000 units and I decide to make my family put jumpers on and only use 35,000 ... am I really as despicable as some benefits cheat? Or, as cjard points out, am I really just increasing the effectiveness of the scheme and actually making the world a little better off as a result? I'll go with the latter. Of course it is up to the government to make sure the scheme's entry point is as well managed as possible ... but after that, I don't think any additional savings can be baulked at.

Out of interest slidersx200, do you think that repeatedly using your maximum ISA allowance is to all intents and purposes tax evasion?

I was at an installer conference when the scheme launched, 1 of the keynote speakers was Patrick Allcorn from DECC who is responsible for delivering the domestic scheme.

I actually queried the very point under debate here, in that a well insulated renovation or new-build would be disadvantaged in comparison with a stone built, solid walled property next door.

He was very candid in that the govt motivation was to sell renewable heat units, and actively encouraged us as installers to size, design and orchestrate the application on the un-insulated property and then recommend the application of additional insulation to it.

Whilst this impacts on the pot available, it does at least encourage the installation of renewable heating, the customer uses less energy by insulating and the govt can release positive sound bites about the amount of renewable energy it has installed/bankrolled.

It is however a disincentive to the customer insulating up front.

He did acknowledge that scheme wasn't perfect but it was a start.

You asking CJ to take your wife on holiday, cool

*Directed to the discussion in general and not pointed at any individual:

The scheme is fundamentally flawed for using these projected usage figures, rather than recorded actual data, but even the latter is open to exploitation through excessive operation of the heating system to boost the figures which is ultimately worse in environmental terms.

Planning to hold back on adding extra insulation until payments are agreed may not be illegal or an act of fraud as the information would be correct at the time, but it is at the very least a little devious. Should we feel entitled to exploit a loophole just because we can?

If it was firmly stipulated that any additional insulation had to be declared or that actual usage figures dictated your the level of entitlement would your actions be the same?

If you had to physically sign the agreement in the presence of those behind the scheme would you tell them about the planned changes?

We can each judge for ourselves whether our underlying interest in schemes such as the RHI are genuinely to save the dolphins and conserve the planet or whether the motivation may be a little more self serving.

Good man Marcus, you don't have to justify anything to me though! I'm just offering my opinion on the subject as part of the discussion and everyone else is entitled to believe and do as they see fit.

I'm trying to weigh up whether to bother with the scheme for our new home at the moment, or if I'd rather not invite yet another public sector body to have reason to contact me...

We have been quoted £8.5k for a 12kW "A class" ASHP with 250 litre unvented cylinder that would qualify for the RHI, but I can piece together a similar package with a different (but still inverter driven) 12kW ASHP with 300 litre unvented cylinder for less than £4k. I think we'd just do better than break even based on this, but personally think the peaceful, easy life is worth more to me than a few hundred pounds over 7 years.