Home  5  Books  5  GBEzine  5  News  5  HelpDesk  5  Register  5  GreenBuilding.co.uk
Not signed in (Sign In)

Categories



Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

PLEASE NOTE: A download link for Volume 1 will be sent to you by email and Volume 2 will be sent to you by post as a book.
Buy individually or both books together. Delivery is free!


powered by Surfing Waves




Vanilla 1.0.3 is a product of Lussumo. More Information: Documentation, Community Support.

Welcome to new Forum Visitors
 Join the forum now and benefit from discussions with thousands of other green building fans and discounts on Green Building Press publications: Apply now.




Housing - Renovation: Speedfit plastic or copper pipe for stud walls?

Bottom of Page

1 to 30 of 39

  1. <
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. >
    • CommentAuthoratomicbisf
    • CommentTimeJan 25th 2015
     
    Hi all, I've been using PEX barrier pipe and speedfit fittings to redo my bathroom as it's quick and easy. But to put a shower on a stud wall I'm having second thoughts as the joints won't be accessible unlike those under the bath etc. So if it leaks it will be a pain as it will involve opening up the wall, making good, redecorating etc.

    Should I learn how to solder copper pipes for the plumbing inside the walls, or am I being over cautious?

    Ed
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeJan 25th 2015
     
    no, I would go for permanent plastic fittings or ones with clips on the Colette.
    • CommentAuthoratomicbisf
    • CommentTimeJan 25th 2015
     
    What do you mean by permanent plastic fittings?
    • CommentAuthorringi
    • CommentTimeJan 25th 2015
     
    I would be very tempted with chrome pipes run on the surface, as I never like the connection to the shower being impossible to repair. (Unless you can provide access from the other side of the stud wall.)
  5.  
    Soldering is straightforward to learn. I like copper!
    • CommentAuthorBeau
    • CommentTimeJan 25th 2015
     
    Re did my parents place with Hep2O 15 years back and never had a leak to date. Did our place with a selection of Hep and Speedfit again no problems. Have seen old copper joints start leaking after a few years. Just be methodical with pushing each joint home and test before boxing in.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeJan 25th 2015
     
    I have never had a permanent hep fitting leak. Seen plenty of soldered fittings fail.

    I like shower calves that hang clear of the tiles with all the gubbins accessible without need to dig up tiles.
    • CommentAuthorrevor
    • CommentTimeJan 25th 2015
     
    If you do a decent job you should not have any problems. It may be worth you investing in,( particularly if you are going to do a lot of plumbing in a pressure testing kit). I believe it is a requirement these days for plumbers to pressure test installations but stand to be corrected. If you are not entirely confident in these fittings (and personally I think the weak point over the years is going to be the deterioration of the o ring.) you could use a brass compression fitting as used on copper pipe but use the plain insert in the pipe. This is something I often do where I may not be able to get access to the joint in the future. The brass compression is also slightly less bulky than the speedfit ones. Certainly soldered fittings are best but need a greater level of skill than using speedfit but a skill worth learning as it gives you that extra choice in difficult plumbing situations.
    • CommentAuthoratomicbisf
    • CommentTimeJan 25th 2015 edited
     
    Yeah it seems pretty straightforward for the soldering itself, seen it done plenty of times but never done it myself. The main difficulty I think will be drilling the holes through the studs perfectly vertical and vertically aligned with each other as the copper pipe is less flexible than the PEX.

    The shower I have (Mira Agile ERD) has the thermostatic mixer unit fitting directly onto 15mm copper pipes protruding from the wall, so the shower/pipework connection will be accessible. This will also be the DHW supply to the whole house when the boiler is moved to the loft.

    Ed
    • CommentAuthorborpin
    • CommentTimeJan 25th 2015
     
    Both!

    2 short bits of copper and a presoldered elbow. Plenty of flux, clean up he copper tube with wire wool and as my old metalwork teacher told me 'cleanliness is next to godliness' (when soldering).

    The copper is clipped in place then connected to the plastic but provides a better connection for the shower.

    I always use these as well http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Taps+%26+Showers/d240/Shower+Valves/sd3000/Shower+Fixing+Bracket/p68003
    • CommentAuthoratomicbisf
    • CommentTimeJan 25th 2015
     
    Posted By: borpinBoth!

    2 short bits of copper and a presoldered elbow. Plenty of flux, clean up he copper tube with wire wool and as my old metalwork teacher told me 'cleanliness is next to godliness' (when soldering).

    The copper is clipped in place then connected to the plastic but provides a better connection for the shower.

    I always use these as wellhttp://www.toolstation.com/shop/Taps+%26+Showers/d240/Shower+Valves/sd3000/Shower+Fixing+Bracket/p68003" rel="nofollow" >http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Taps+%26+Showers/d240/Shower+Valves/sd3000/Shower+Fixing+Bracket/p68003


    So you wouldn't be worried about having inaccessible speedfit connections? This is what I was going to do originally, use speedfit except for the last bit (can't have plastic pipe connecting directly to the mixer)
    • CommentAuthorringi
    • CommentTimeJan 25th 2015
     
    I don’t like inaccessible pipe joint supporting the shower unit. Most shower units make too good a hand rail!

    A speed fix fixing down right, provided the pipe is well fixed on each side of it is unlikely to fail, unless there is movement on the pipe. Most shower units transfer movement to the pipes!
    • CommentAuthoratomicbisf
    • CommentTimeJan 25th 2015
     
    If installed correctly the pipes should not support the shower unit, the instructions are clear that the mixer unit must be attached to a suitable noggin and not rely on the pipes for support.

    Ed
    • CommentAuthorborpin
    • CommentTimeJan 26th 2015 edited
     
    Posted By: atomicbisfSo you wouldn't be worried about having inaccessible speedfit connections? This is what I was going to do originally, use speedfit except for the last bit (can't have plastic pipe connecting directly to the mixer)
    No. The connection is a straight one so no chance of strain (which is the point of using copper for the last section).
    • CommentAuthordb8000
    • CommentTimeJan 26th 2015
     
    Posted By: ringiI would be very tempted with chrome pipes run on the surface, as I never like the connection to the shower being impossible to repair. (Unless you can provide access from the other side of the stud wall.)


    I like chrome pipes too. last year re-routed some pipes but ran them in full view in chrome. Always gets compliments.

    But they're blimmin expensive and the joints weep like crazy until you get the knack of doing them.

    Posted By: tonyI like shower calves that hang clear of the tiles with all the gubbins accessible without need to dig up tiles.
    what are shower calves? Maybe I'm a bit too tired, sorry!
    • CommentAuthorPaul_B
    • CommentTimeJan 26th 2015
     
    What about pressed joints? Okay the initial outlay for the tooling is very high but thereafter do they give a better quality of seal?

    Paul
    • CommentAuthorringi
    • CommentTimeJan 26th 2015
     
    The most at risk joint is the joint into the back of the shower mixer bracket, this is often a compression joint.
    • CommentAuthoratomicbisf
    • CommentTimeJan 27th 2015
     
    I'm not against exposed chrome pipes in principle, but don't think they'll work well here as the pipe work will be a little complicated - at the moment hot and cold come up from under the floor, but I'm arranging it so that when the boiler is located in the loft the hot water will come down from above. What at the moment is a spur to the shower will have the water flow reversed and become the feed from the boiler to the bathroom and kitchen, in order to bypass the old pipe and shorten the run.

    Ed
    • CommentAuthorborpin
    • CommentTimeJan 27th 2015
     
    Posted By: ringiThe most at risk joint is the joint into the back of the shower mixer bracket, this is often a compression joint.
    That is why I use those from Toolstation - brinks the risk in front of the tiles/panels and not in the wall.
    • CommentAuthoratomicbisf
    • CommentTimeJan 27th 2015 edited
     
    Posted By: borpin
    Posted By: ringiThe most at risk joint is the joint into the back of the shower mixer bracket, this is often a compression joint.
    That is why I use those from Toolstation - brinks the risk in front of the tiles/panels and not in the wall.


    I think the design of this Mira shower means that a bracket isn't necessary or even compatible, so I had to return one I already had. You screw the shower mixer back plate onto the wall with the bare copper pipes poking through and the mixer valve itself goes straight onto that so the shower-pipe connection is clear of the finished wall surface. As they are at 50mm centres I've put them on each side of a vertical stud so that I can screw the backplate into that.

    Couldn't bring myself to trust the speed fit in the end so I got some copper pipe. Was a bit hard to assemble as the noggins were close together so had to use quite a few joins, but the actual soldering was a doddle.

    Ed
    • CommentAuthoratomicbisf
    • CommentTimeJan 28th 2015
     
    Here they are. You can see it's a little complicated which is why I didn't go for the chrome pipes!
    • CommentAuthorPeterW
    • CommentTimeFeb 9th 2015
     
    Where does that tee on the right side go..????

    Is the flow up or down that pipe..??

    Cheers

    Peter
    • CommentAuthoratomicbisf
    • CommentTimeFeb 9th 2015 edited
     
    Posted By: PeterWWhere does that tee on the right side go..????

    Is the flow up or down that pipe..??

    Cheers

    Peter


    Hi Peter, we're looking at it from behind so the teed pipe is the hot water. At the moment the shower is on a spur from the main DHW pipe and the pipe above the T is temporarily capped in the loft. So the water flows up the Pipe.

    When the new boiler is fitted in the loft, the water will flow down the pipe and the section below the T will be the DHW supply to the bath, handbasin and kitchen.

    This will considerably shorten the pipe run compared with connecting the boiler to the present origin of the DHW at the cylinder, which would create a U shaped pipe run (with the shower on a spur).

    Ed
  24.  
    Original layout:
  25.  
    Now:
  26.  
    Planned:-
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeFeb 10th 2015
     
    Posted By: atomicbisfWhen the new boiler is fitted in the loft, the water will flow down the pipe and the section below the T will be the DHW supply to the bath, handbasin and kitchen.

    Eh? The hot water feed to the shower then goes on to supply various other things including the kitchen sink? Sounds like a recipe for showers interrupted by unpleasantly cold bursts!

    BTW, my plumber swears by the Marflow shower pl8. AFAICT they seem to be a sensible idea.
    • CommentAuthoratomicbisf
    • CommentTimeFeb 10th 2015
     
    Surely that's just an inherent hazard with a combi boiler? There are only two of us, and one hot tap outside the bathroom (in the kitchen) so if one of us is having a shower the other will know not to run the kitchen tap. Thought that was pretty standard and doesn't depend on the relative positions of the boiler, shower and hot taps.

    Ed
    • CommentAuthorthe souter
    • CommentTimeFeb 10th 2015
     
    revor is on the money- the O-rings fail, hot pipe first. Speedfix is 'quick and easy' but there is a price to pay for convenience - long term peace of mind. Copper!
    • CommentAuthoratomicbisf
    • CommentTimeFeb 11th 2015
     
    Posted By: the souterrevor is on the money- the O-rings fail, hot pipe first. Speedfix is 'quick and easy' but there is a price to pay for convenience - long term peace of mind. Copper!


    Thanks! It's all done in copper now. What really swung it was I found an intact newspaper wrapping a copper pipe under the floorboards with a headline announcing the Indian invasion of Portuguese Goa (1961). Obviously never leaked in over 50 years. Was much easier than I expected, only slightly tricky bit is cutting and assembling the pipe before soldering if the space is restricted (eg having to use short lengths of pipe joined with couplers when put vertically through holes drilled in a stud wall).

    But the Pushfit hasn't gone to waste as it was very useful for temporary connections, testing etc.

    Ed

1 to 30 of 39

  1. <
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. >
   
The Ecobuilding Buzz
Site Map    |   Home    |   View Cart    |   Pressroom   |   Business   |   Links   
Logout    

© Green Building Press