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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
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      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeApr 11th 2015
     
    So my latest quandary is how to build a wetroom floor. My wife doesn't like grout lines so tiles are out. So what to use to build up the floor and how to form a shower tray? Prices all seem extortionate, so I hope I've missed something.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeApr 12th 2015
     
    I built in a good trap, screed, semi non slip vinty (not pimpled) coved and turned up walls, clamped into trap.

    I use wooden ply formers if wood again with vinyl, then as above

    No puddles allowed,
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeApr 12th 2015
     
    Liquid resin.
  1.  
    If concrete, built in trap, sloping screed and venetian plaster. Walls can be venetian plastered as well but the mix for the floor is different than for the walls.
  2.  
    A large (say 800mmx2m) shower tray can be one straightforward option.

    Ferdinand
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeApr 12th 2015
     
    Thanks for your suggestions everybody.

    We have a concrete slab, which is about 60 mm below FFL, and there's a depression in the slab to make space for the trap. Over the rest of the floor apart from this room we have battens and chipboard to bring the level up.

    Posted By: tonyI built in a good trap, screed, semi non slip vinty (not pimpled) coved and turned up walls, clamped into trap.

    Screeding means finding somebody to do it who I trust to get the slopes right. Haven't met anybody like that yet.

    I use wooden ply formers if wood again with vinyl, then as above

    That sounds interesting. Do you do anything else to protect the ply, apart from cover it with vinyl?

    Posted By: owlmanLiquid resin.

    To build the floor up or to make the top surface? Any pointers to how-tos would be interesting.

    Posted By: PeterStarckvenetian plaster. Walls can be venetian plastered as well but the mix for the floor is different than for the walls.

    Mike Wye recommend tadelakt instead of venetian plaster in wet rooms? Tadelakt I know to be too expensive!

    Posted By: ferdinand2000A large (say 800mmx2m) shower tray can be one straightforward option.

    Most shower trays have a lip at the edges, are there some that don't? How do you connect it to the rest of the floor, where the WC and basin are?
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeApr 12th 2015 edited
     
    I'd use ply to first build up the floor level, then use something like this to get the falls.

    http://www.marmox.co.uk/products/showerlay

    Use the appropriate tape roll sealers at the wall junc..
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeApr 12th 2015
     
    Never understood why are wet rooms are so popular. I mean there you are rushing to get off to work, you nip in to use the loo and end up getting wet socks cause the kids have just been in for a shower.
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeApr 12th 2015
     
    They work best CW, when they have UFH too, it dries them out in no time. Then all the water vapour has to go somewhere so you need MVHR and so it goes on and on.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeApr 12th 2015
     
    Posted By: owlmanI'd use ply to first build up the floor level, then use something like this to get the falls.

    http://www.marmox.co.uk/products/showerlay

    The showerlay is only for tiling. You have to use their showerstone product for vinyl, which goes back to my original description of 'extortionate'. But I'm interested that you would use ply underneath it rather than their multiboard.

    Posted By: CWattersNever understood why are wet rooms are so popular.

    It's part of the Lifetimes Homes criteria. But apart from that, I wouldn't have it.
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeApr 12th 2015
     
    I misunderstood, apologies, I thought you wanted something loadbearing hence ply.
    Just for building up levels yes Multiboard is fine. I've just used 6 and 10mm boards similar boards on 25M2 to build up levels under floor tiles rather than levelling screed. I needed to level my dining room to conservatory levels.
  3.  
    Posted By: ferdinand2000A large (say 800mmx2m) shower tray can be one straightforward option.

    Most shower trays have a lip at the edges, are there some that don't? How do you connect it to the rest of the floor, where the WC and basin are?


    Think I didn't supply enough information. I meant have a super sized shower in a shower room, not a wetroom.

    If you have a shower tray, then it becomes a normal bathroom floor, so as per usual. Not having fitted a showeer personally, I'll avoid the detail. Anyone?

    Though in a recent belt and braces one for students, I had a big shower tray and used a company to do the floor of the rest of the bathroom floor sealed like a commercial wetroom for when something would be overflowed. It did, and it was fine.

    Posted By: ferdinand2000
    Posted By: ferdinand2000Over the rest of the floor apart from this room we have battens and chipboard to bring the level up.



    Just checking - you have used the right water-resistant stuff, haven't you?

    Not doubting your skills at all, but I currently have a full line of cracked tiles down the length of my bathroom because the previous owner who renovated it tried to save money by using normal chipboard underneath which has expanded. There may be extra stress caused by the ufh.

    I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

    Ferdinand
  4.  
    Posted By: djhSo my latest quandary is how to build a wetroom floor. My wife doesn't like grout lines so tiles are out. So what to use to build up the floor and how to form a shower tray? Prices all seem extortionate, so I hope I've missed something.


    Further reply.

    I thought one usual way was to use formers like this:

    http://www.heatandplumb.com/acatalog/AKW_Tuff_Form_Rectangular_Wet_Room_Floor_Former_1500mm_x_820mm.html?utm_source=ProductSearch&utm_medium=GoogleBase

    and then use your chosen floor fabric (or tiles or vinyl) over the top.

    I think the wetroom type fabric I used in the student shower room mentioned in my other post was one of the Polysafe Hydro range, which is typically used in eg health spas around pools, changing room showers and so on:

    http://www.polyflor.co.uk/jh/products.nsf/products!open&family=saf&prodcode=fxsc151

    Ferdinand
      wetroom-former.jpg
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeApr 13th 2015
     
    There are several low profile shower trays that you can set into the floor so there is no step to speak of. Just a few mm to stop the shower door seal scraping on the tiles. Easy access and no water everywhere.

    http://www.ravak.com/en/gigant-pro-flat-shower-tray

    http://www.bathroomheaven.com/shower-trays/square-ultra-slim-stone-resin-shower-tray-height-25mm-31692.aspx
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeApr 13th 2015
     
    Posted By: ferdinand2000Think I didn't supply enough information. I meant have a super sized shower in a shower room, not a wetroom.

    Right but this is a wetroom with a shower WC and basin. The turning circle for a wheelchair is what drives the requirement for a wetroom as opposed to a separate shower, I believe. Apart from any other misfortune that may befall us, dementia is a common illness of later life that leads to this situation.

    If you have a shower tray, then it becomes a normal bathroom floor, so as per usual. Not having fitted a showeer personally, I'll avoid the detail. Anyone?

    Though in a recent belt and braces one for students, I had a big shower tray and used a company to do the floor of the rest of the bathroom floor sealed like a commercial wetroom for when something would be overflowed. It did, and it was fine.

    The commercial wetroom stuff, what I call 'hospital vinyl', is turned up the walls and welded to make it watertight. With a normal shower tray, it's raised above the floor so they could still do that but the detail would have to be different if the shower tray was level with the floor.

    Posted By: ferdinand2000Just checking - you have used the right water-resistant stuff, haven't you?

    Well, the rest of the floor isn't in the wetroom, but yes we've used P5 chipboard throughout elsewhere.

    Posted By: ferdinand2000I thought one usual way was to use formers like this

    That's an interesting one - can be used with vinyl, can be trimmed and a more reasonable price. Thanks, I might well get that.

    The Polyflor is one of the vinyls we've been looking at, along with Altro and Gerflor - they all seem to be functional but very uninspiring, but I guess that's what we're stuck with.

    Posted By: CWattersThere are several low profile shower trays that you can set into the floor so there is no step to speak of. Just a few mm to stop the shower door seal scraping on the tiles. Easy access and no water everywhere.

    Right, but there's no shower door! If they are set into the floor then the strategy seems to be to waterproof the subfloor, which works with tiles but I'm by no means certain it would work with vinyl (water under the vinyl, yuk!) plus with the Ravak one there's still the step down into the tray that doesn't seem to be dimensioned in the drawings. The other one does look to have a level entry but I'm not sure I'd trust an end-of-range no-brand product.
  5.  
    I thought those formers were quite expensive for what they are. Not far off what I paid for my resin shower tray and fixed/braced 8mm glass screen, but OTOH if they do the job and make it easy then that is OK.

    I think the other potentially useful thing I can add for future readers is that in a similar circumstance, which my mum may face in a few years, I might look at integrated units - completely sealed pods from fibreglass - as used in hotels etc if I were converting an annex. These are available but the risk is that it feels institutional or cruise-liner like, though that may perhaps be mitigated and some companies are small enough to customise work.

    I am looking at these for a conversion, but have not got far with my research yet beyond finding models which come with integrated battens for building a 'stud'wall round it and that suppliers seem to be quite flexible. I must take up the invite to go and see a project in Bolton.

    There would be similar jiggery pokery with floor levels which is perhaps unavoidable.

    (Re earlier comments. Yes, our showers were raised a little above floor level with the curved bottom of wall corners for the floor welds in the main floor. I quite like those curved corners, though my lettings agent raised his eyebrows. The experience from a previous leak from a flooded floor won, however}.

    Ferdinand
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeApr 14th 2015
     
    In my book tiles will leak even with a membrane under best case is grout coming out, worst is unthinkable.

    Single sheet semi non slip high quality vinyl, clamped into trap with wall finish lapping down over up stands to walls, 100mm minimum visible. No puddles allowed. Will never leak except out of the door to the room if someone blocks the trap and continues.

    We have a curved glass screen bought as a spare part for a walk in tray, cheap and looks great.
  6.  
    Just throwing out ideas..

    Could you form your shower tray from fibreglass, maybe even laid up in situ or to a pattern by self or a fibreglass man? The gel coat can be given a finish or a mat of some sort added.

    We had quite a few things done like that in a previous house. And it would give you 20 years.

    Ferdinand
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeApr 14th 2015
     
    Posted By: ferdinand2000Could you form your shower tray from fibreglass, maybe even laid up in situ or to a pattern by self or a fibreglass man? The gel coat can be given a finish or a mat of some sort added.

    I probably could but that's way more effort than I feel able to spare at the moment. I want something as near to off the shelf as I can get.
    • CommentAuthorbella
    • CommentTimeApr 15th 2015
     
    As a simple soul with bad lifetime experiences of 1/2 doz builders' bathrooms I would go Tony's route only if I was really handy and could do the job myself. Otherwise I would go for a complete, generous sized shower enclosure lid and all. These work! Just cannot understand why given the cost of "wet rooms" complete enclosures are not more used - steam in room far less, no leaks, pull out if required. The Italians make very smart ones and Douglas James of Hull (no connection, just a satisfied customer) do less luxurious versions.
    • CommentAuthoralexc
    • CommentTimeApr 15th 2015
     
    For future reference.
    Vinyl/ PU flooring/chemical resin

    www.bolidt.com
    uk http://stratum.bolidt.com/stratum/about.html

    I live 10 km from factory, so some of the local builders use the products for bathrooms/kitchens. Prepare floor(as per Tony above) then pour bolidt product. Base layer, and then the colour of choice from range.
    After 10 months, seems strong, no colour loss. no issues, except yes, if trap is blocked, over flow is door sill. Relatively cheap(500euro inc labour), very quick.
    • CommentAuthorborpin
    • CommentTimeApr 15th 2015
     
    My original plan was for a wet room floor. I have since gone for low rise shower bases. Minimal lip and all the water can be kept in!
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeApr 15th 2015
     
    Dream on!
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