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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
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    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeApr 27th 2015
     
    In this quarters Renewable Energy Focus, the editorial was about permitted development being extended to 1 MWp roof top solar systems.

    This is mainly for commercial installations, but good all the same.
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeApr 27th 2015
     
    Is there any limitation to solar power in residential permitted development rights for any UK country? Don't think there is.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeApr 27th 2015
     
    There is something about only being allowed 9 m^2 if ground based or something.
    This articles was about the commercial sites and roof tops.
    • CommentAuthorMackers
    • CommentTimeApr 27th 2015
     
    I think residential is limited to 4kW or am I dreaming?

    Check the local electrical infrastructure as it may not be able to handle it
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeApr 28th 2015
     
    Posted By: MackersI think residential is limited to 4kW or am I dreaming?
    Not by permitted development rules.

    For grid connected systems the default limit is 16 amps per phase fed into the local network (‚Äúgrid‚ÄĚ) which works out at a bit under 4 kW for a normal domestic single-phase 230 V system. Also, FiTs has (or, at least, used to have) a break-point at 4 kW where the rate (p/kWh) dropped. But, as far as I know, there's nothing in the planning legislation which says anything about how much PV or solar thermal (planning tends to treat them the same) you can put on your roof.
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeApr 28th 2015 edited
     
    Posted By: SteamyTeaThere is something about only being allowed 9 m^2 if ground based or something.
    Yes, I think that's right in England (and Wales, perhaps). However, you can put as much as you can fit on your permitted development garage, chicken shed, whatever.

    [PS, in Scotland the rules are to do with covering not more than a certain percentage of the ground round the house. IIRC, all the sheds, panels, pools, etc, between them can't cover more than half the area which was left by the original house.]
    • CommentAuthorrhamdu
    • CommentTimeApr 29th 2015
     
    I am beginning to find the sight of a bare, south-facing roof mildly shocking. Like something offensive to my religion:bigsmile:
    •  
      CommentAuthorted
    • CommentTimeApr 29th 2015 edited
     
    The PD limit is 50kW apart from the new 1MW limit (which is not really PD as you still have to apply and be granted permission) for non-residential buildings. The key is the use of the word "microgeneration" which is defined in the Energy Act 2004 (and elsewhere) as up to 50kW.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeApr 29th 2015
     
    Posted By: rhamduI am beginning to find the sight of a bare, south-facing roof mildly shocking. Like something offensive to my religion
    Strange, so do I.
    There is a new multi services station being built on the A30. The new fire station has two large roofs, neither has PV on them.
    It may in the future though. Who knows.
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeApr 29th 2015
     
    Thanks Ted. Yes, permitted development is a funny concept; small wind turbines in Scotland can be PD but you have to get ‚Äúpermission‚ÄĚ or, at least, a certificate of lawful permitted development. Basically, though, if your installation will meet the requirements (maximum height?, at least 100 m from anybody else's curtiledge) they're supposed to give you permission even if they and all your neighbours loathe the things (though there might be a few weasel words on this). Is this what's going on with the new commercial rooftop installations?
    •  
      CommentAuthorted
    • CommentTimeApr 29th 2015
     
    Pretty much the same process.

    (2) Class J(c) development is permitted subject to the condition that before beginning the development the developer must apply to the local planning authority for a determination as to whether the prior approval of the authority will be required as to the design or external appearance of the development, in particular the impact of glare on occupiers of neighbouring land, and the following sub-paragraphs apply in relation to that application.

    (3) The application must be accompanied by‚ÄĒ
    (a) a written description of the proposed development;
    (b) a plan indicating the site and showing the proposed development;
    (c) the developer’s contact address; and
    (d) the developer’s email address if the developer is content to receive communications electronically;

    together with any fee required to be paid.
    • CommentAuthorborpin
    • CommentTimeMay 3rd 2015 edited
     
    Posted By: SteamyTea
    Posted By: rhamduI am beginning to find the sight of a bare, south-facing roof mildly shocking. Like something offensive to my religion
    Strange, so do I.
    There is a new multi services station being built on the A30. The new fire station has two large roofs, neither has PV on them.
    It may in the future though. Who knows.

    Me too.
    • CommentAuthorSteveZ
    • CommentTimeMay 3rd 2015
     
    Our farmer neighbour with one 50kW wind turbine on his land, has lots of existing barn roof space and a brand new barn roof to play with. What has he done? Applied for PP to put up another 85kW wind turbine!! Can't think why.... maybe it's the profits rather than the own use argument. The parish council took the view that since he has one already, another won't make much difference ............ We are fighting the Planning Application locally, but looking around it does seem fairly hopeless

    The fact that companies can fund these turbines and the farmer repays the loan from his 'winnings' really distorts the market and is slowly covering Cornwall with these eyesores. We also have a local creeping wind farm development, where one turbine went up, followed by another with a different owner. Now there are four of the things clustered there - when does this become defined as a windfarm and need proper planning approval? I suspect that ship has already sailed.

    I hope India and China get on with the Molten Thorium Salt Reactor development quickly :bigsmile: and we can all have reliable, low emissions baseload generation capability
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeMay 3rd 2015
     
    The really sad thing about all these small turbines is that if the farmers in Cornwall clubbed together, they could put up one 2 MW one and all be better off.
    Personally I don't have a problem with them, I just see it as a missed opportunity to generate more, for less money.

    I am not sure of the current payment structure for smaller installations, but if any investment cannot beat the saving rate, it is not a good investment to get. EDF are not building a new nuclear plant at Hinkley Point to loose money on (though they will be bailed out repeatedly in my opinion), and they are borrowing about £20bn.
    Sometimes I feel a bit sorry for farmers, seems whatever they do, someone, somewhere, will get upset.
    Cornwall is odd, it probably produces more flowers than food crops, hardly essential to life.
    • CommentAuthorGreenfish
    • CommentTimeMay 3rd 2015
     
    Posted By: SteamyTeaThe really sad thing about all these small turbines is that if the farmers in Cornwall clubbed together, they could put up one 2 MW one and all be better off.
    Personally I don't have a problem with them, I just see it as a missed opportunity to generate more, for less money.
    But could the network take it? I have heard that the infrastructure is hitting limits. I don't have a problem with them either, in fact the appearance of acres of PV is more disturbing.

    Happen to know if Cornwall is self sufficient yet on a sunny windy day?

    Cornwall is odd, it probably produces more flowers than food crops, hardly essential to life.
    I thought it was cabbages?
    •  
      CommentAuthorjoe90
    • CommentTimeMay 3rd 2015
     
    Well, I didn't use to have a problem with them (wind turbines) but one has been installed about 1km from our new plot and I am surprised with the constant whoosh whoosh sound that it generates. When staying in my caravan on site it has even woken me up at night. I believe the sound is generated by the blades passing the supporting post as this ties up with the frequency. Some may say I am over fussy but the quietness of the plot is the main reason we are building there.
    •  
      CommentAuthorted
    • CommentTimeMay 3rd 2015
     
    Western Power announced a block on any more grid-connected renewables in the South West a month or so ago.

    Our county is commissioning a landscape capacity study to have some idea of how many more wind turbines they can say 'yes' to.

    They have had over 800 planning applications - at a cost to the council of around £2200 each to process and all subsidised by local council tax payers.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeMay 3rd 2015 edited
     
    There are two main issues with connection.
    The Local: houses, small turbines, PV and hydro. Generally this is below 200 kW
    Bulk Transmission: Main lines coming into the county.

    It is the local that there is a problem with. This grid connection block has been on the cards for a few years now. WP have done their best, but eventually they cannot connect any more without some serious local upgrading.
    It does not help that Cornwall is shaped funny, with the towns on the edges and at end of the country.

    Not sure how much RE capacity there is in Cornwall at moment, may be worth investigating.
    There was a bit in this week Sunday Times Business about the 8 GW of installed solar that the UK has, with 2 GW of it having been fitted recently.
    If you work on 10% of installed capacity for solar and a mean demand of 325 TWh/year for the country, then solar is supplying about 7 TWh/year or 2%.

    Posted By: tedThey have had over 800 planning applications - at a cost to the council of around £2200 each to process and all subsidised by local council tax payers.
    That will be about £3.28 each then, I think even down here we can afford that, less than 2 coffees a year, or, assuming half the population is not earning, less than a months mobile bill. Worth keeping these things in perspective. :wink:
    Did you win your case about your local turbines Ted?

    Posted By: joe90Some may say I am over fussy but the quietness of the plot is the main reason we are building there.
    I was down at Porthleven week before last, there was a film crew doing their stuff. The microphones where picking up the sounds of the helicopters 3 miles away.
    The countryside has never need quiet. I went to school in rural Oxfordshire, Brise Norton was 4 miles away, there was a VC10 that took off at 6 AM most mornings, and during my 'O' Levels, Concorde was doing a load of low level 'sound' test. Now that was noisy.
    Still be worth testing how noisy your local turbine is though.
    •  
      CommentAuthorted
    • CommentTimeMay 3rd 2015
     
    Posted By: SteamyTea
    Did you win your case about your local turbines Ted?


    We lost the large one that went via the (now defunct) IPC.

    We won the sightly smaller one that went to appeal.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeMay 3rd 2015
     
    Did you use the stats to show that the noise analysis was rubbish?
    • CommentAuthorcjard
    • CommentTimeMay 3rd 2015
     
    @steamy
    I read it as 800 apps costing 2200 each, I,e 2200x800, rather than 2200/800 ??
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeMay 4th 2015
     
    I divided it by the population of Cornwall.

    (800 [applications] x 2200 [cost in £]) / 560,000 [population of Cornwall] = £3.14/person
    • CommentAuthorMikel
    • CommentTimeMay 4th 2015
     
    @ST, do you have any data showing the grading of agricultural land, particularly grade 3a and grade 3b, in Cornwall?

    Most maps I can find show Cornwall has a predominate amount of grade 3 agricultural land but those maps don't distinguish between grade 3a and grade 3b.

    Putting solar on grade 3b and grazing with sheep would probably be most productive for such land. Better than daffy, many of which are left for bulbs if there isn't an early crop compared to the rest of the country.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeMay 4th 2015 edited
     
    I have seen some maps about the Cornish agricultural wilderness, there is an open day at Rosewarne college soon, bet they have some. Shall see if I can find anything out.
    The land around here is not very productive, unless you like growing granite chunks, Japanese Knotweed or polythene. Even the dairy farmers are moving out, costs too much to ship the feed in.

    Found this one:
    http://publications.naturalengland.org.uk/file/141046

    And a bit more detail from here:
    Cornwall County
    Grade Hectares %
    Grade 1 326 0.1
    Grade 2 28,317 8.0
    Grade 3 216,517 61.2
    Grade 4 67,599 19.1
    Grade 5 23,367 6.6
    Non Agricultural 11,299 3.2
    Urban 6,250 1.8

    So most of the land is Grade 3 and 4.

    If we took the Grade 4 and 5 out of agricultural production and covered it with PV, then we could install about 40 GW of PV.
    It would still leave 3/4 of farmland untouched.

    No need for sheep, it is not a sheep area, they are also affected too much by world prices. Pigs may be different as they need shelter. If you want to make a small fortune in pig meat, start with a large one.
    • CommentAuthorMikel
    • CommentTimeMay 4th 2015
     
    Thanks ST. Yes, I did come across that one.

    our local Conservative candidate is somewhat against onshore wind and solar (but in favour of marine renewable energy). Tends to complain about solar on farm land taking away from food production, which, as you say, is marginal down here except for a few pockets.
    • CommentAuthorwoodgnome
    • CommentTimeMay 4th 2015
     
    Posted By: tedWestern Power announced a block on any more grid-connected renewables in the South West a month or so ago.

    Our county is commissioning a landscape capacity study to have some idea of how many more wind turbines they can say 'yes' to.

    They have had over 800 planning applications - at a cost to the council of around £2200 each to process and all subsidised by local council tax payers.


    Ted, where do I find info regarding no more grid connection in the south west? Presumably this includes Devon?
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeMay 4th 2015 edited
     
    Do we have the same candidate, not sure where the boundary changes. I know the Green One, if he shaved I may vote for him.

    Marine Energy, the Holy Grail. Shall we take him out on a boat and show him why it is so difficult.

    I shall try and see if I can get some tonnage data for agriculture down here. Most of 'the money' is in value added i.e. cheese, cream, early crops, B&B.

    There is this research, getting a bit old now:
    http://www.cornwallac.org/managed/CAC%20website/food-and-drink/reports-and-research/a-review-of-cornwalls-agrifood-industry-2011.pdf

    Almost time for the June Survey, this is last years:
    https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/farming-statistics-final-crop-areas-yields-livestock-populations-and-agricultural-workforce-at-1-june-2014-uk
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeMay 4th 2015
     
    Posted By: woodgnomeTed, where do I find info regarding no more grid connection in the south west? Presumably this includes Devon?


    Try this:
    http://www.westernpower.co.uk/Connections/Generation/Generation-Capacity-Map.aspx
    •  
      CommentAuthorted
    • CommentTimeMay 4th 2015
     
    Posted By: SteamyTeaDid you use the stats to show that the noise analysis was rubbish?

    Yes I did. Thanks again for your help with that.
    •  
      CommentAuthorted
    • CommentTimeMay 4th 2015
     
    Posted By: SteamyTeaI divided it by the population of Cornwall.

    (800 [applications] x 2200 [cost in £]) / 560,000 [population of Cornwall] = £3.14/person

    We have 73,000 households so the cost is £24.11 for each.
   
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