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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

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      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeApr 28th 2015
     
    So for better or for worse, this is the situation ...

    There's a 110 mm soil pipe sticking up out of the concrete slab. There's a shower waste with a horizontal outlet. There's very little height under the shower tray. What's the most effective (i.e. needs least height) way of connecting the 1 1/2" waste to the 110 mm drain?

    My best thought so far is something like http://www.pipescenes.co.uk/upvc-waste-to-soil-adapter-cap-pipe-reducer-110mm-4-to-40mm-1-1-2.html
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeApr 28th 2015
     
    Yes plus a street elbow to go into it, not a bend.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeApr 29th 2015
     
    I got a warning that Norton was blocking an attack when I visited that link.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeApr 29th 2015
     
    A strap on boss might be lower? Especially if you can chip away some of the conc without damaging the pipe.

    http://kingfisher.scene7.com/is/image/Kingfisher/bnqTemplate1?$overlayHide=1&$product=Kingfisher/5055149906343_01c&wid=450&hei=450
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeApr 29th 2015
     
    unless you chase the concrete then no, and if chasing concrete then what you are doing could be just as low.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeApr 29th 2015
     
    Posted By: CWattersI got a warning that Norton was blocking an attack when I visited that link.

    Dunno. I get a warning from the site that "JavaScript seems to be disabled in your browser", which is correct. I expect to be able to browse with no Javascript. But maybe that means I'm not seeing an attack that your system does.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeApr 29th 2015
     
    My plumber talks about an MF elbow rather than a street elbow, but I think he and Tony are talking about the same thing. The plug sits flush with the surface (or as low as you chip away) and then you have the radius of the bend, insofar as you can't press it into the plug. With a boss, I'd have to allow for the plastic collar around the boss instead of the radius of the bend.

    Anyway, it's a good reminder not to cut the 110 pipe off too short yet, whilst I play around with the options to see what works best. Some more SDS chiseling to do first. I wish the job was big enough to justify hiring a jack hammer, they're so much faster than the 5 kg thing I've got.

    Thanks again, chaps.
  1.  
    3 years later and I have a very similar situation, only with a vertical waste.

    Cast in 110mm OD plastic soil pipe, currently sticking up 900mm or so from structural slab. Intended to be a walk in wet room but that only leaves 50mm height to play with...

    Plan was to cut the pipe down to slab and fit an Impey vertical shower sump into the top, but it turns out these are exactly 1100mm OD as well -I had planned to seatt the drain inside the 110mm pipe. Reading the small print they are designed to fit a 110mm *socket* not pipe.

    They also sell a 90mm vertical shower waste with a 116mm flange at the top, my thoughts were this would easily sit into my pipe, but I don't know if it would be sealed enough or if any potential backflow would cause invisible leaks below the screed.

    Any ideas? I still have the proposed shower sump but I'm similarly worried that a pipe boss wouldn't clamp this enough at such a critical location.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJul 24th 2018
     
    Fit the 43 mm vertical adapter and add a bit of pipe so it comes well below the top of the 110 mm waste. Then use a double coupling to seal the two 110 mm pipe lengths together, for belt and braces?
    • CommentAuthorborpin
    • CommentTimeJul 30th 2018
     
    I've had this issue before. I think next time (LOL) I'd try and sleeve the 110 pipe so there is some movement or it can be replaced. End the 110 in a socket slightly below the concrete level. Use a little expanding foam to hold it in place in the sleeve.
  2.  
    Thanks guys.

    borpin, with the benefit of hindsight, that's exactly what I'd do too but it's already cast in.

    djh, good plan. The double coupling pieces are all around 110mm in height and we've only got 50mm to play with so I think a chisel/hammer drill is inevitable now...
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJul 31st 2018
     
    In my case I used an SDS-Plus with a chisel.
    • CommentAuthorborpin
    • CommentTimeAug 2nd 2018
     
    Posted By: Doubting_Thomasborpin, with the benefit of hindsight, that's exactly what I'd do too but it's already cast in.
    Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
    • CommentAuthorborpin
    • CommentTimeAug 2nd 2018 edited
     
    I ended up using a rubber insert into the end of the 110pipe with the smaller pipe pushed in.

    https://www.diy.com/departments/floplast-waste-adaptor-dia-110mm-black/81131_BQ.prd
    • CommentAuthorgoodevans
    • CommentTime4 days ago
     
    Hi all - We are to pour the top screed layer next week - I too has assumed that a 110mm pipe cut flush to the top of the screed would give plenty of wet room options.

    I see several wet room drains that have a vertical output at 40mm - but I have no idea if the main body of the most of these would sit in the hole created by a 110mm soil pipe (without socket). If they do then Borpin's Rubber insert solution seems to be just the ticket. Is there anything really wrong with that solution?

    However I have the option to rootle around in the eps and change the pipework - but its got to be worth the effort because it will delay the builders a bit.

    for clarity a sketch of the current state of affairs...
      img-180810145715-001.jpg
  3.  
    What we use here for shower/bath/ hand basin drain connection is a floor drain that has a number of 50mm pipe inputs and a 50mm output and the floor drain also has a trap in built. can you not get similar over there?

    If the picture works - the white part screws in/out to cater for screed/tile heights
      bathroom drain.jpg
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTime4 days ago
     
    @goodevans: No. Borpin's rubber piece assumes the shower waste is above the top of the 110 mm by the height of the rubber cone.

    You either need your shower waste in place at the correct height before you place your screed, or you need to rethink.

    @peter_in_h: how to you pour your screed and then fit the top piece?

    Sorry, both. I had a better reply typed and then lost it :(
    • CommentAuthorgoodevans
    • CommentTime4 days ago edited
     
    Posted By: djhYou either need your shower waste in place at the correct height before you place your screed, or you need to rethink.
    I need to re-think.

    I'm thinking the most flexible way is to cut down the 110 pipe as low as possible and get a socket on it and use a 160mm pipe to surround the area to keep the screed out (which can be removed or cut down to screed level later. That should leave me with enough options to fit most vertical drains at a later date and get the necessary floor seals in place under controlled conditions later in the build.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTime4 days ago
     
    If you cut the insulation back so you can get a 160 mm pipe around the 110 mm waste then that gets you some flexibility and is a vital part of your plan I think. Cutting the 110 mm waste back before the screed is poured will be easier than afterwards, I expect, and doesn't seem to make things worse in any way except the vague possibility of an extra joint becoming necessary.

    Questions I don't know the answer to in this situation is how is the top of the shower waste supported and how is it sealed to the floor covering, and how is the 50 mm-ish gap around the waste pipe filled to support the floor?

    In our case we put a shower former on top of the plumbing before laying wetroom vinyl, so didn't have these concerns. The shower waste was designed to connect to the former for support and to the vinyl for a watertight seal.

    I'd be trying to get all the components on site and dry assemble it all before the screed is poured if possible. I suppose you can always chip a bit of the screed out afterwards if needed, or fill in holes somehow.
  4.  
    Posted By: djh@peter_in_h: how to you pour your screed and then fit the top piece?

    The top piece is in place before you put in the screed. You have the drainage components in place and you should know how much above the screed the finished floor will be (tiles etc). you lay the screed and when you come to the drain you adjust the height by screwing in/out the white portion to get the right FFL for the drain and then screed around the drain and continue to finish the screed. Generally the drain is set to be a couple of mm below the FFL
    • CommentAuthorgoodevans
    • CommentTime2 days ago
     
    Thanks Peter and Dave - yes in a perfect world SWAMBO would have signed off on the finishes - but alas no.

    I will mask off the area of falls where the shower is located, and soon after hand finish to falls to within 200mm of the drainage hole. The hole will have a 110 socket within it as low as possible which will allow the final filling in and shower drain support to be to be done when the decorating decisions have been made.
    • CommentAuthorborpin
    • CommentTime19 hours ago edited
     
    Posted By: djh@goodevans: No. Borpin's rubber piece assumes the shower waste is above the top of the 110 mm by the height of the rubber cone.
    No it will go flush as you can push the cone downwards. The horizontal pipe can sit flush to the level of the 110 pipe.
    • CommentAuthorborpin
    • CommentTime19 hours ago
     
    I actually think wetrooms are a fad. I'd rather a low rise base. No chance of any leaks!

    When I laid the screed, I boxed out the areas for the showers then 'screeded' them afterwards once I knew where the drains needed to go before sitting on the shower trays.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTime17 hours ago
     
    Posted By: borpinI actually think wetrooms are a fad. I'd rather a low rise base. No chance of any leaks!

    Agreed for normal use. For the ground floor 'accessible' shower though, I think the wetroom has it.
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