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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

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    • CommentAuthorrhamdu
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2012
     
    Posted By: fostertomI'd like to see this as a separate thread, so we can explore with examples and try to understand what it means in practice.


    Consider it done. 'From energy conservation to thermodynamic efficiency' http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/forum114/comments.php?DiscussionID=9682
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2012
     
    Good man
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeOct 12th 2012
     
    Posted By: fostertomWhat if the ICE methods of analysis vary so much, from source to source, as to be not inter-comparable?

    Well I suppose:
    (1) you can read it all and decide for yourself whether that is the case,
    (2) there wouldn't have been much point in doing the work in the first place and
    (3) it wouldn't have acquired the reputation that it has.
  1.  
    BRE numbers are of course the ones you have to use in Code for Sustainable Homes...

    J
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeOct 12th 2012
     
    So in a nutshell, do we believe/what do we think of BRE Green Guide? Ditto Bath ICE?
  2.  
    On the subject of BIM liking to Thermal analysis

    Geometry data from BIM models (e.g. Revit Architecture) can now be imported in gbXML format in order to carry out thermal analysis in Tas.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeOct 16th 2012
     
    Does that come across reliably without fiddling and correcting?
  3.  
    That remains to be seen. Now I'm back working with Tas I will be testing how smooth it is
    • CommentAuthorrhamdu
    • CommentTimeOct 21st 2012
     
    The discussion 'From energy conservation to thermodynamic efficiency' seems to have hit a software problem. There is nothing on page 2 apart from an error message.

    I reported the problem to the help desk but nothing happened. So here is a new thread, to enable that discussion to continue:

    http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/forum114/comments.php?DiscussionID=9728
  4.  
    Hi all,

    I'm trying to find a paper which I'm sure is linked to here (somewhere) Not having any success though.

    It include a comparison of Dynamic Thermal Analysis software and lists what each does and how each is validated. It includes all of the major names such as ESPr, Hot 3003, TAS, IES etc.

    Can anyone help?
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeDec 8th 2012
     
    May have mentioned this package, become the expert on it and teach me.
    http://www.lisa-fet.com/thermal_analysis.htm
    Does your university use Solidworks as that has an FE package built in.
    • CommentAuthorMike George
    • CommentTimeDec 8th 2012 edited
     
    Yes, they use Solidworks, also Tas, which I use. Its bad enough keeping up with developments of one package thank you very much (I'm only there one day a week)

    The paper is for a Dissertation student who wants to test the accuracy of Tas predictions compared to actual recorded energy use as a result of an insulation upgrade.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeDec 8th 2012
     
    Right, students eh (quite enjoying be back as one).

    Solidworks is pretty easy to understand, as the name implies, you start with a block and then just carve away, bit like modelmaking. You can assign properties to the block and then it sorts itself out.
    Just for a laugh if you want to send over some data I could see if I can model it in Excel and see what that spits out.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDAI_EVANS
    • CommentTimeDec 9th 2012
     
    Apologies if I'm a bit out of the loop here but just a few small thoughts:
    1) We teach solidworks and sketchup at my school as part of Design and Technology. However this is mainly due to cost and we have seen and used more user friendly programs externally. For example, Pro-Engineer is a lot easier to grasp and use.
    2) Revit was making a big boom and when I was on the job hunt, everyone wanted Revit users. Not the case anymore? (James my thought is if RAA is going into the 21st century 3D modelling this would make most sense? As it will still produce your orthographic drawings.
    3) Having used Ecotect, its a bit like sketchup....its good for concepts and basics but its very limited. Used it on the Stoddard Building for a refurb assignment for the MSc.
    4) Unfortunately, in my opinion, we are coming to a time where companies need to take the jump into BIM before they get left behind. It seemed to be building up momentum until the recession kicked in, but think it might suddenly take off quickly when things improve.
  5.  
    It seems that every one is talking the buzz word BIM, including companies now by the sounds of it, without knowing what it is exactly, and how it can be used. As things stand at the moment, there are lots of possibilities but also many limitations.

    The greatest limitation so far continues to be the lack open operability across software platforms.

    The second limitation is that individual countries are continuing to develop and introduce their own set of building standards and regs, especially on the sustainable design front. This means that software packages, regardless if they are BIM orientated or not, cannot for the moment produce results that are appropriate for each individual countries reg requirements.

    Take for example Autodesk, for the 2 points above.

    Firstly, they are desperate to "own" the BIM market as much as possible. They refuse to make their BIM software file type .rvt open to other software developers unless there is a licence agreement signed. There is an international organisation of BIM software developers that is promoting the development of an open BIM standard that would make interoperability across software platforms/users much easier.

    Secondly, when a developer like Autodesk brings out their latest version of Revit, they are not going to produce a version that complies to the regs for each individual country.

    For the moment, whilst BIM exists and is being used, it is still not being utilized to its greatest potential, except in organisations like IKEA or McDonald's, where the design and build process is a closed loop and can be controlled in house from start to finish.

    The ideal solution would be a global set of building standards and regs across the board, and either an open software standard (this doesn't mean free) or everyone using the same software package.
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeDec 10th 2012
     
    Posted By: bot de pailleThe ideal solution would be a global set of building standards and regs across the board, and either an open software standard (this doesnt mean free) or everyone using the same software package.

    This is putting the cart before the horse. A set of global building standards is about as far from ideal as I could think of. Different environments require different standards.

    What we need is building standards APIs that BIM developers can hook into, probably via IFC. Check out what they do in the likes of Singapore. You can upload your IFC model and have it automatically checked for the local building standards. It's already being done.
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeDec 10th 2012
     
    FFS go easy on the TLAs guys.

    API = application programming interface.
    BIM = building information model or something like that, I guess????
    IFC = what?
  6.  
    Ed,
    IFC = Industry Foundation Classes. It's a sort of cross-platform file format for building and construction industry data.

    To add my personal experience - we're adopting Revit in the office and for the most part it's business as usual moving on from AutoCAD (with a few more headaches for the CAD manager!). In some ways this is the best possible way route to widespread BIM adoption - stealth like introduction of something that feels like what you've been using before. Unfortunately, I also share Bot's concerns about the interoptability. I really feel like Autodesk/Bentley dropped the ball on this one, after 30 years of incompatible software it's looking like we're heading that way again.

    My bigger concern, though, is the level at which BIM tends to simplify the building process. The idea of pre-built libraries of walls with multiple layers of cladding, breather membrane, structure etc. is appealing as it starts to really open the way to 'approved constructions'. The issue I have is that there's a tendency for people at every level to assume this will then generate an 'accurate' model for simulation. In reality, despite being 3D, those VCL's, DPM's and even insulation layers don't tend to turn corners and maintain continuity etc.

    The awkward real-world junctions are rarely worked out fully in the BIM model because there isn't time to do this. Like the oft quoted and oft misunderstood 'clash detection' facility, the reality of workflow means that you have to set your filters to 'coarse' to catch the big stuff and avoid every minute discrepancy triggering the alarms. Just as we're making buildings more and more airtight and these junctions become more and more critical, along comes a software that focusses on the 'big picture' over being able to zoom in to the detail.

    I was repeatedly told during training not to bother with the fiddly layers and junctions as that stuff would be worked out by the builder on site - "in order to keep the BIM model small enough to be manageable you have to think of it as 1:50 scale or above..."

    Ultimately, BIM has to be the way forward in terms of cross-discipline coordination at the large scale, but I worry that the ease of simulation may invite designs where the processes used are increasingly pre-built and 'black box', menawhile no-one is checking that the guys on the ground can actually make the corners work.
  7.  
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: Shevek</cite><blockquote><cite>Posted By: bot de paille</cite>The ideal solution would be a global set of building standards and regs across the board, and either an open software standard (this doesnt mean free) or everyone using the same software package.</blockquote>
    This is putting the cart before the horse. A set of global building standards is about as far from ideal as I could think of. Different environments require different standards.

    What we need is building standards APIs that BIM developers can hook into, probably via IFC. Check out what they do in the likes of Singapore. You can upload your IFC model and have it automatically checked for the local building standards. It's already being done.</blockquote>

    I think you misunderstand, I'm not saying that the buildings them selves need to be the same, regardless of local environment. I'm saying that in an ideal situation the standards by which building designs are measured and regulated would be the same.

    Countries like the US and Australia contain very different climates , and yet their energy efficiency regs fall under a unified system of standards.

    Europe, having already implemented Euro-codes, could mandate harmonized building regs across the continent, taking into account different environmental zoning.

    In France, although I work to a standardized set of codes, depending on where the project is I still need to take into account local wind, snow, altitude, seismic codes etc. Its not complicated.

    The benefit of this would be that software developers would find it financially feasible to develop a "euro standards " version of their software. for example.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeDec 10th 2012
     
    Posted By: bot de pailleThe ideal solution would be a global set of building standards and regs across the board, and either an open software standard (this doesnt mean free) or everyone using the same software package.

    I'm with shevek here.

    It's difficult to think that it would be possible to come up with a single set of rules, even if they were parameterised, that would deal with all the different environments and traditions on the planet. And the chances of some committee agreeing them is even less.

    And standards should be free (as in beer) as well as open. People can charge for implementations that comply with the standards if they wish, but it should also be possible for somebody to build an implementation and not charge if they want.
  8.  
    "It's difficult to think that it would be possible to come up with a single set of rules, even if they were parameterised, that would deal with all the different environments and traditions on the planet. And the chances of some committee agreeing them is even less."


    So a country like Australia or (even the US) with a climate ranging from tropical to desert to temperate, doesn't have one set of building codes?

    "And standards should be free (as in beer) as well as open. People can charge for implementations that comply with the standards if they wish, but it should also be possible for somebody to build an implementation and not charge if they want."


    Having standardized regs doesn't preclude any of the above, if anything it makes it easier as people can develop solutions that can benefit everyone, rather than each country having to reinvent the wheel and get it passed regs (with all the costs involved) in their own country.
  9.  
    Posted By: Doubting_ThomasI really feel like Autodesk/Bentley dropped the ball on this one, after 30 years of incompatible software it's looking like we're heading that way again.


    They didn't so much drop the ball, as kick it off the sidelines. They know what they are doing, and its a deliberate act to try and maintain market dominance. Autodesk certainly didn't invent the idea of BIM cad software, but now that they have caught on, they are trying their damnedest to monopolize it as their own.

    The answer would be for governments and local authorities to mandate that public projects be submitted as IFC compatible. Unfortunately, Autodesk is lobbying strongly with success for governments to demand that projects be submitted in the DWG/DXF format.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeDec 10th 2012 edited
     
    Lost the thread a bit here.
    Bot are you saying that the 'testing' of components should be to the same standard?
    So if you are working out air glow in a building, the same equation should be used for all countries. Measurement units can change for the location, i.e. imperial or metric
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeDec 11th 2012
     
    Posted By: bot de pailleSo a country like Australia or (even the US) with a climate ranging from tropical to desert to temperate, doesn't have one set of building codes?

    I think Australia has a single code, but the US most certainly doesn't. It has the "International" code but that doesn't apply everywhere. States and even municipalities have their own. Think about the various regulations for bales.

    But they are both single countries with a single language and legal system. Trying to make something that can work in Europe is difficult enough. Trying to apply the same regulations in New York and the Sahara, the Congolese jungle, and Nepal say seems like a hiding to nothing. Are you going to allow bamboo scaffolding in New York? How about banana leaf roofs? Or are you going to insist on steel everywhere?

    There aren't even worldwide standards for basic materials yet, or agreement on a system of units. There's no chance of agreement about building things.
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeDec 11th 2012
     
    Posted By: djhStates and even municipalities have their own.

    Indeed, and some don't have any. E.g., some counties in northeastern Missouri have no building codes beyond rules about percolation tests, etc. With suitable sewage disposal you can build anything you like. I've no idea if the resulting death rate is dramatically higher than elsewhere.
  10.  
    Posted By: djhThere aren't even worldwide standards for basic materials yet, or agreement on a system of units. There's no chance of agreement about building things.



    http://www.iso.org/iso/home/news_index/news_archive/news.htm?refid=Ref1685

    The construction industry is a key sector in many national economies, and often the largest employer. In addition to the construction of buildings and infrastructure, it provides services and products for export worldwide. ISO standards provide the sector with solutions for all aspects of its activity, from the traditional to the innovative, and they include tools to tackle new challenges such as pollution and energy performance.

    The new brochure underlines how ISO standards tackle the challenges of sustainable development at the same time as providing requirements for technical and functional performance.

    Implementing International Standards in construction not only provides technical advantages, but also social, economic and environmental gains for industry, regulators and consumers.

    The brochure underlines the benefits of ISO’s consensus-based approach, and outlines ISO’s solutions for good business practice, optimal management of resources and limiting impacts on the environment.

    Out of 19 400 standards from almost all sectors of business and technology, more than a hundred come from ISO technical committee ISO/TC 59, Buildings and civil engineering works. In addition, many other ISO technical committees have developed standards and related technical documents on construction products.

    The brochure highlights the wide range of topics addressed by ISO's construction standards, including: terminology; requirements for joints, tolerances and fit; information technology in building and civil engineering processes; geometric requirements for buildings, building elements and components including modular construction, and performance requirements.

    ISO standards also address vital and topical issues such as accessibility, responding to the UN’s Universal Declaration on Human Rights which states that everyone has the right to equal access to public services in his or her country.

    When developing standards, ISO involves all stakeholders, from architects to designers, engineers, owners, product manufacturers, regulators, policy makers and consumers. Working through its network of national members, its standards are based on the foremost expertise in the world and disseminate it to both developed and developing countries.

    In the future, the construction sector will have to deal with issues such as climate change and its impact on buildings, as well as the energy efficiency of buildings, thus requiring standards for accurate measurement methods for the thermal properties of buildings and building products. The development of standards related to the delivery process of buildings and civil engineering works is also one of the next steps.

    The brochure, ISO & construction, published in English and French, is available free of charge from the ISO Central Secretariat through the ISO Store or by contacting the Marketing, Communication & Information department. It can also be obtained from ISO national member institutes (see the complete list with contact details).
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeDec 11th 2012
     
    ISO wishing something doesn't make it so. And ISO writing it down doesn't make it right, although sometimes it is.
  11.  
    Since 2010 all EU member states have withdrawn their own local building codes and now must comply with EU wide Euro-codes.

    The same with handicapped, seismic, snow load, wind calcs and fire ratings for building materials and constructions. This has already been harmonized across all EU member states.

    So to say that these kinds of regulations cant be implemented across different countries with different climates and languages just is not true because its already been done.

    What is missing is a harmonized energy efficiency rating across Europe, which would make it easier for BIM software developers and uses to create a really useful solution.

    What are Eurocodes and how do they relate to timber?
    The Eurocodes are a suite of harmonized European standards covering:
    structural design
    actions on structures
    the design of concrete, steel, composite steel and concrete, timber, masonry and aluminium structures
    geotechnical design
    design of structures for earthquake resistance.
    Eurocode 5 is the suite of standards specifically relating to timber structures. It replaces BS 5268, which is no longer maintained by BSI. Eurocodes 0 and 1 relate to general principles of structural design, and should be consulted alongside EC5.

    Eurocodes are a set of harmonized technical rules developed by the European Committee for Standardisation for the structural design of construction works in the European Union.[1]
    The purposes of the Eurocodes are[1]:
    a means to prove compliance with the requirements for mechanical strength and stability and safety in case of fire established by European Union law.[2]
    a basis for construction and engineering contract specifications.
    a framework for creating harmonized technical specifications for building products (CE mark).
    By March 2010 the Eurocodes are mandatory for European public works and the de facto standard for the private sector. The Eurocodes therefore replace the existing national building codes published by national standard bodies (e.g. BS 5950), although many countries had a period of co-existence. Additionally, each country is expected to issue a National Annex to the Eurocodes which will need referencing for a particular country (e.g. The UK National Annex).

    The Eurocodes are published as a separate European Standards, each having a number of parts. By 2002, ten sections have been developed and published:
    EN 1990: Basis of structural design
    EN 1991: (Eurocode 1) Actions on structures
    EN 1992: (Eurocode 2) Design of concrete structures
    EN 1993: (Eurocode 3) Design of steel structures
    EN 1994: (Eurocode 4) Design of composite steel and concrete structures
    EN 1995: (Eurocode 5) Design of timber structures
    EN 1996: (Eurocode 6) Design of masonry structures
    EN 1997: (Eurocode 7) Geotechnical design
    EN 1998: (Eurocode 8) Design of structures for earthquake resistance
    EN 1999: (Eurocode 9) Design of aluminium structures
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeDec 14th 2012
     
    Posted By: bot de pailleSince 2010 all EU member states have withdrawn their own local building codes

    Yes, we all know about Eurocodes. But the local building code in the UK is called "Building Regulations" and it is most certainly not withdrawn. Neither is the code in Germany, which operates on very different principles AIUI. Building codes are legal frameworks, not technical standards.

    I didn't ever say something like Eurocodes can't be done, but they are done within a single political entity with a single overarching legal framework, among countries with broadly similar levels of development and that use a single measurement system. They are also produced by CEN, not ISO.

    Look at the current ITU meeting if you want to see an example of full international co-operation, or any of the climate change conferences over the past years, or the UN dealing with Syria etc etc. And yes, I know the UN isn't ISO either.
  12.  
    Posted By: djhYes, we all know about Eurocodes. But the local building code in the UK is called "Building Regulations" and it is most certainly not withdrawn. Neither is the code in Germany, which operates on very different principles AIUI. Building codes are legal frameworks, not technical standards.


    Sorry djh but that is just not correct. You are confused like many because they are still called building regs and not Eurocodes.

    read below and anywhere else about the changes.
    Ive seen the changes take place over the last few years as more and more regs have been brought in line with European standards.

    "From March 2010 all European public-sector clients are legally required to base their planning and building control applications on Eurocode-compliant structural designs. Given that most existing national structural design codes will be withdrawn at the same time, the private sector is very likely to follow suit.

    "Why are the Eurocodes important?

    Although they have received relatively little publicity, following completion of the final Eurocodes, from March 2010, equivalent national standards were withdrawn across the European Union, leaving a common European approach to structural design.

    Confusingly, in the UK, although the Eurocodes have replaced any previous equivalent British Standards, the Approved Documents to the Building Regulations 2010 still refer to some of those withdrawn British Standards. For more information, see this letter from the Department for Communities and Local Government.

    In summary, the Eurocodes are vital, in that they underpin the structural design aspects of the Building Regulations."
   
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