Green Building Forum - Elon Musk’s master plan for Tesla is self-driving cars and trucks powered by the sun Mon, 07 Sep 2026 14:29:21 +0100 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 Elon Musk’s master plan for Tesla is self-driving cars and trucks powered by the sun https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14413&Focus=244753#Comment_244753 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14413&Focus=244753#Comment_244753 Fri, 29 Jul 2016 15:54:07 +0100 SteamyTea Elon Musk’s master plan for Tesla is self-driving cars and trucks powered by the sun https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14413&Focus=244760#Comment_244760 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14413&Focus=244760#Comment_244760 Fri, 29 Jul 2016 17:20:04 +0100 skyewright Posted By: SteamyTeaI was thinking more of just a single tractor unit that picks up one or two pods, rather than a single unit that picks up multiple pods. The saving being in the mass that has to be moved about between pickups. And the customisableness of them.
Personal pods would need places to live, i.e. parking spaces. Many of those would be off road, maybe even in garages (where the personal car no longer is). Wouldn't that greatly complicate the process (sometimes the transit unit might even need to temporarily decouple a unit it already had, in order the be manoeuvrable enough to pick up an additional pod from a garage or driveway)?

For on street parking, you can parallel park a motorised unit, so they are nose to tail with restively small gaps but probably not a pod (counter to that though, pods would probably be shorter)?]]> Elon Musk’s master plan for Tesla is self-driving cars and trucks powered by the sun https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14413&Focus=246412#Comment_246412 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14413&Focus=246412#Comment_246412 Wed, 31 Aug 2016 11:01:53 +0100 fostertom https://theconversation.com/how-maths-and-driverless-cars-could-spell-the-end-of-traffic-jams-63462

"Some car makers expect that eventually we will stop viewing cars as possessions and instead simply treat them as a transport service. Again, by applying mathematical techniques and modelling, we could optimise how this shared autonomous vehicle service could operate most efficiently, reducing the overall number of cars on the road. So while driverless cars alone might not rid us of traffic jams completely by themselves, an injection of mathematics into future policy could help navigate a smoother journey ahead."]]> Elon Musk’s master plan for Tesla is self-driving cars and trucks powered by the sun https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14413&Focus=246414#Comment_246414 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14413&Focus=246414#Comment_246414 Wed, 31 Aug 2016 11:10:05 +0100 ringi
Companies move most jobs into city centers so they get as large choose of workers as possible.

Lot of people like to live in “nice areas” away from the city center.

Houses are cheaper if they are a long distance from the city center.

The distance someone is willing to live form work is depending on the commuting time (and cost), so if it becomes quicker to commute some people choose to live a greater distance from work.

Therefore without “road charging” traffic jams will remain for commuting however many new roads we build, or improvements to the usage of the current roads we make.]]> Elon Musk’s master plan for Tesla is self-driving cars and trucks powered by the sun https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14413&Focus=246417#Comment_246417 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14413&Focus=246417#Comment_246417 Wed, 31 Aug 2016 11:25:24 +0100 fostertom
This 'hyper productivity' has not, for last 20yrs, expanded the economy enough to create replacement jobs; waged real income continues to fall, employment becomes more sub-divided into low-paid, part-time or 'gig economy' semi-jobs, in order to apparently keep the employment figures up. 'Prosperity' is fuelled not by wages but by ever-increasing debt.

Watch out for massive unemployment to come, both workers and middle managers, businesses no longer needing to attract employees, deserting the city centres, passenger-miles falling.]]> Elon Musk’s master plan for Tesla is self-driving cars and trucks powered by the sun https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14413&Focus=246422#Comment_246422 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14413&Focus=246422#Comment_246422 Wed, 31 Aug 2016 11:56:03 +0100 djh
http://www.softmachines.org/wordpress/?p=1730]]> Elon Musk’s master plan for Tesla is self-driving cars and trucks powered by the sun https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14413&Focus=246424#Comment_246424 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14413&Focus=246424#Comment_246424 Wed, 31 Aug 2016 12:07:41 +0100 fostertom
Think of it like 'global warming? what global warming?' - deep oceans are storing the heat, leaving the atmosphere barely unaffected, but when that heat breaks to the surface, watch out.

Same with hyper productivity. Society won't know what's hit it, having no shame-free alternative to wages to put spending money into pockets.

Plummeting prices, profits evaporating, no waged spending - looks like fun.]]> Elon Musk’s master plan for Tesla is self-driving cars and trucks powered by the sun https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14413&Focus=246439#Comment_246439 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14413&Focus=246439#Comment_246439 Wed, 31 Aug 2016 14:22:19 +0100 ringi
China has expanded its production on the bases that demand will keep growing at a fast rate, therefore they now have empty factories.

Re-shoring has hardly started yet, just wait until there is a robot that can sew better then a person with a sewing machine!]]> Elon Musk’s master plan for Tesla is self-driving cars and trucks powered by the sun https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14413&Focus=246442#Comment_246442 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14413&Focus=246442#Comment_246442 Wed, 31 Aug 2016 14:28:17 +0100 Jamster Elon Musk’s master plan for Tesla is self-driving cars and trucks powered by the sun https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14413&Focus=246449#Comment_246449 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14413&Focus=246449#Comment_246449 Wed, 31 Aug 2016 19:08:59 +0100 fostertom Elon Musk’s master plan for Tesla is self-driving cars and trucks powered by the sun https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14413&Focus=246456#Comment_246456 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14413&Focus=246456#Comment_246456 Wed, 31 Aug 2016 22:07:52 +0100 SteamyTea Posted By: fostertomhastening the collapse of capitalism's profits.You really don't get how economics works do you. :wink:]]> Elon Musk’s master plan for Tesla is self-driving cars and trucks powered by the sun https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14413&Focus=246457#Comment_246457 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14413&Focus=246457#Comment_246457 Wed, 31 Aug 2016 22:48:27 +0100 fostertom
The mainstream one is almost un-updated from the time of its twin theory, Darwin's Evolution, despite the discovery of Ecology since then - 'The law of the jungle (ecosystem) is survival of those that fit in'.

Some say Economics is the 'science' of humans making rational self-interested choices (as if that's what humans do) but technology-aided capitalism, in pursuing its own logic, is quite rapidly eliminating humans from both the production and the consumption sides of the equation.

Looks like Economics will work even better without pesky human involvement.]]> Elon Musk’s master plan for Tesla is self-driving cars and trucks powered by the sun https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14413&Focus=246461#Comment_246461 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14413&Focus=246461#Comment_246461 Thu, 01 Sep 2016 07:32:26 +0100 SteamyTea Posted By: fostertomor even a 'soft' one like BiologyBiology is a real science.

Posted By: fostertomdespite the discovery of Ecology since then
Your just putting your own interpretation on words here. As far as I know, ecology is the the observation and modelling of natural resources.

Posted By: fostertomSome say Economics is the 'science' of humans making rational self-interested choices
Or the Dismal Science, it is well understood that humans are not rational actors in the environment. It varies somewhat between the micro and the macro, geo-politial areas, age groups, educational levels, time of year etc.

Posted By: fostertomis quite rapidly eliminating humans from both the production and the consumption sides of the equation
Then that is an evolutionary dead end.

Posted By: fostertomLooks like Economics will work even better without pesky human involvement.
Which aspect of economics, will these futuristic machines sideskip the human race and start making trinkets for bacteria and viruses, or blades of grass. There is a larger population base if sentient beings are sidestepped for botany.

Right, some data:
http://www.ifr.org/industrial-robots/statistics/
https://encrypted.google.com/#q=uk+employment+statistics
So doing a plot on this very limited data set, quite the opposite seems to be happening.]]> Elon Musk’s master plan for Tesla is self-driving cars and trucks powered by the sun https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14413&Focus=246475#Comment_246475 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14413&Focus=246475#Comment_246475 Thu, 01 Sep 2016 11:48:38 +0100 fostertom Posted By: SteamyTeaBiology is a real science.Certainly, but vastly disconnected from the simple elegant universal laws of Physics and (some say) Economics.
Posted By: SteamyTeahumans are not rational actors in the environment
How then can laws like supply and demand operate, if humans aren't rational about it? Perhaps Economics says humans may not be rational, but are predictable, en masse? I think that would depend on great special-case selectivity of evidence (actually, has anyone ever verified the laws of economics empirically, bouble-blind, repeatable etc?)
Posted By: SteamyTea
Posted By: fostertom[technology-aided capitalism] is quite rapidly eliminating humans from both the production and the consumption sides of the equation
Then that is an evolutionary dead end.
Yup, but that won't be the end of human evolution - we will just do 'something else', keyword 'collaborative' (rather than atomised competitive). Economics may either turn itself inside out, or that name will die and be replaced by someting radically different in both content and nature.

Great graphs - over what period? Starting perhaps in the depths of the 2008 recession? What account taken of the subdividing and part-timing of previous 'good' factory jobs, in the present no-rights gig economy, which enables govts to say 'more jobs than ever' (along with moving the unemployment-definition goalposts)?]]> Elon Musk’s master plan for Tesla is self-driving cars and trucks powered by the sun https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14413&Focus=246487#Comment_246487 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14413&Focus=246487#Comment_246487 Thu, 01 Sep 2016 14:52:52 +0100 gravelld Posted By: fostertom (some say) Economics.You need to stop listening to these "some" people Tom. They don't understand economics.]]> Elon Musk’s master plan for Tesla is self-driving cars and trucks powered by the sun https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14413&Focus=246492#Comment_246492 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14413&Focus=246492#Comment_246492 Thu, 01 Sep 2016 15:40:17 +0100 fostertom Elon Musk’s master plan for Tesla is self-driving cars and trucks powered by the sun https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14413&Focus=246499#Comment_246499 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14413&Focus=246499#Comment_246499 Thu, 01 Sep 2016 19:25:00 +0100 gravelld
For me it's similar to what is termed "computer science" in universities.

There's the abstract bit which is basically just mathematics (in the case of CS, discrete maths).

And then there's the human level bit where it gets much more complicated (in CS, software engineering).

But taken as a whole it's a social science.]]> Elon Musk’s master plan for Tesla is self-driving cars and trucks powered by the sun https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14413&Focus=246505#Comment_246505 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14413&Focus=246505#Comment_246505 Thu, 01 Sep 2016 22:05:31 +0100 SteamyTea Posted By: gravelldBut taken as a whole it's a social science.Yes, and that is still work in progress. It has shed some light on interesting human behaviour (Milgram and his envelopes, a very repeatable test).
Tom, if you start to think of 'value' as a tradeable commodity, rather than every item having a nominal price, you may start to see a different picture emerging from economic theories.
So different people can, and do, put a different value on the same product, even of the price is the same. A teenage may see a Ford Fiesta a a route to freedom, a working mother may see it as a reliable workhorse and a pensioner as something to block up country lanes with. They would all have paid the same price for it.
This becomes even more strange and less rational if you look at services. Many people use entertainment services and pay quite a bit for them. Most of those services are also available for nothing from other sources. So why do some people pay and others not. I don't have a TV, so don't have to buy a TV license, and as of today, I cannot legally watch the BBC iPlayer. But it only takes a few minutes on Youtube to find many of the programs I like, or I could hunt around the dark web and download just about anything. So I have swapped instant and easy viewing at a price, for delayed viewing for free. Why, because I don't value TV that highly (radio is different).]]>