Well, what do you think of that. I think the key thing to view is the timetable for introduction of this certification and to to stir things up a bit by saying that the display energy certificate software (to start oct 2008) hasnt finished being developed yet, then theres accredited schemes, trainers and trainees to find.
One of my lecturers moonlights training domestic energy assessors and his advice was to swerve the domestic energy assessor role due to the lack of revenue suggesting £30-40 a time.
i'd love to hear from people that paid for the training with the income promises some of the training firms were suggesting the reality is probably quite a blow, especially coupled with the diminishing number of properties coming onto the market.

of course theres code for sustainable homes assessors to research yet!

Posted By: ali.gillWell, what do you think of that

what? The govt's just done something?

Sorry tom, this was supposed to be in the Energy Assessment category - hopefully keith can shift it over. it was late. 'what do you think of that' refers to the documents flagged up as resources and articles.
'The govt's just done something?', well yeah, they've dropped us in the, er doo-dooo.

Its a bit more than that mike as you'll see on those resources. and theres also the element of pre-assessment assessments to make improvements so the actual assessment is better - does that make sense?
Re: CSH Theres also the element of cheats or loopholes built into the system, that developers will happily find and utilise to save money on installing low carbon heating systems.
My big concern, as has been implied by others, is that SAP and SBEM use theoretical assumptions that have been found to be incorrect....
http://www.leedsmet.ac.uk/as/cebe/projects/stamford/pdfs/del8execsum.pdf and http://www.leedsmet.ac.uk/as/cebe/projects/stamford/pdfs/del7coheating.pdf

hence as i said on the other thread - a like for like comparison of hot3000 (which if Paul says is pretty damn accurate then i'm sure we've placed enough value in his posts to take his word) where was i, right a proposed comparison of hot3000 and SAP and SBEM software/calculation method.
People are paying thousands for accreditation is using these tools and the government are only allowing approved software. Guidance is to disregard partywalls, yet i think you would struggle to find a larger thermal bridge.

I am now considering the CIBSE training course so that I can offer EPC's for comercial buildings.

Is anyone here doing the training? Love to hear what it is like.
Have you had much interest regarding comissions?
How much is the going rate? I have heard £1 - £2/m2 floor area

Also, which software you intend to use, the ones I know of are the free [basic] SBEM one; and the very expensive TAS/IES dynamic ones

When do we have to have EPCs for commercial buildings Mike (I'm talking about small retail units)? It's not going to be lucrative for me as I'll be paying for them! Perhaps I should do the training, the fees I'll save might pay for it?

Chris - the legal requirement came into force on 1st January 2005 (five, not a typo).

Regarding costs - these are all notional and are not updated to current prices! So do not take the EPC's as being accurate in any way.

<blockquote><cite>Posted By: PaulT</cite>Chris - the legal requirement came into force on 1st January 2005 (five, not a typo).</blockquote>

Paul, I thought this came into force in April 2008. Have I missed something? Tas are not yet supplying their version of the software so anything which requires level 5 assessment [which requires dynamic simulation] is not yet doable, at least not with Tas.

More here on the levels and what they mean

http://www.cibsecertification.co.uk/consultants/how-to-become-a-cibse-energy-assessor/buildinglevels

Posted By: nigelI suspect rates for doing these will be low.

The costs of the qualification are too low to prevent too many people offering the service and like the home epc you will probably have a job getting enough work.

Hmm, level 5 qualification costs are not cheap by my way of thinking. You first need experience with Dynamic Simulation, and by my estimation around £7k to set up including top up training and software purchase

Maybe most buildings will be be modelled using SBEM? Though I am not sure this is going to be as simple as most seem to think.

"Wooo there Tom! None of my tenants either current or prospective have every asked me about energy efficiency or utility costs."

Is that because the standard response of agents would have been 'we haven't a clue'

Perhaps things will start to change with EPCs: It can, after all, add an unexpected £100+ onto a tenants's monthly bill in properties that are towards the low end of the scale

Posted By: Chris WardleNone of my tenants either current or prospective have every asked me about energy efficiency or utility costs. I'll let you know when they do

Give it 12-18 months to really bite. I might even say - get out while you can - or be willing to hit the ground running - and prosper greatly by being amongst the first! When you think it through it's great - creating value and finance availability out of what we're all avid to do, and know how to, better than anyone.

Posted By: PaulT
At the moment I am not sure what is happening; Various statements are being made but I am not prepared to spend money on accreditation until there is a very clear need.

Yes, I share you worries. I have heard for example that it is currently only necessary to provide a certificate AFTER contracts have been exchanged! Given the economic concerns of the moment I wonder when this will be tightened up as originally inteneded? Ie. provision of a certificate for prospective tenants to view prior to exchange?

I can see what you meant about the EPBD [2005] requirement now.

Posted By: PaulTwe should push ahead and be the best, but we also need to be realistic about expectations

Yeah it's hard to gauge the timing for investment, because it hasn't got going yet and the shape of the trend's not clear. A management accounting colleague of mine is putting together some spreadsheets so we can go to money-minded business policymakers and buildings managers and run them through what-ifs, inputting different assumptions about fuel price rise rate, %age extra necessary to make a buildings uprate or newbuild project into a low- or zero-fuel one .... etc. They have to get their heads round the possibilty of low- or zero-fuel, the consequent rewards and conversely the penalties for inaction (which are quantifiable), before they can make their own judgements about effect on buildings capital or rental value, and the value of the business itself that owns or occupies such buildings (which are future-gazing).

Chris, the software will factor in glazing areas with the high end versions like Tas being very accurate indeed. It remains to be seen whether the free SBEM is any better than SAP......

As for air losses Tas can accurately model these as well, but the estimation of such losses is always going to be subjective, and I cannot imagine anyone will get much work if they consistently do modelling work which produces low scores because of this. More likely it will be the same ald same old, and an unrealistic assumption will be made by software default Sad but true

Mike, I'm sure there will be some way of calculating the necessary figures but I was really wondering what kind of measures are going to be recommended to improve things, e.g. do you make all retailers fit draft lobbies and keep the doors shut, or take the plate glass windows out and replace with something that doesn't lose so much heat? I've never understood why shops need to be heated since the people going into them presumably have dressed according to the weather conditions. Make the staff do the same and take the heaters out. People might not go shopping as much either which would suit me fine (as I hate it) and benefit the climate.

Simon, Not sure I get you completely, Are you saying there is no truth in the rumour that EPC's do not need to be produced until post-contract?

Or that the rumour is true, but illegal under the EPBD?