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  1.  
    What's the deal with them? I've always liked my cars and just wondering if now is the time to switch?

    Worth getting new? Second hand? Lease etc?

    I'd like a BMW i3 but still not sure the figures actually stack up?

    Oh, and I don't have a driveway....
    • CommentAuthorgravelld
    • CommentTimeDec 1st 2016
     
    Do you mean financial figures?
    • CommentAuthortorrent99
    • CommentTimeDec 1st 2016
     
    With second hand, there's always the replacement battery questions.

    How long will the current battery last, and how much will replacement cost?
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeDec 1st 2016
     
    Mine do :) Smart ED total cost per year including everything, fuel, insurance, depreciation, service, etc £1200 p/a over 10 years.

    i3 is very nice but will cost more, once you get one you wont want to go back :)
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeDec 1st 2016
     
    I guess it would depend to a large extent, on whether you are a city or rural dweller. If the latter, a PHEV may be a better bet.
    • CommentAuthorringi
    • CommentTimeDec 1st 2016
     
    Posted By: tonyMine do :) Smart ED total cost per year including everything, fuel, insurance, depreciation, service, etc £1200 p/a over 10 years.


    Buying a 2nd hard "normal" car, it is easy to get that low unless you drive many miles. Letting someone else pay the first 3 years depreciation buys you a lot of fuel.....
  2.  
    When I looked the sweet spot seemed to be 2-3 years old buying at about 20-30% of new price (say 6-8k) then run until it dies.

    You still have many years battery life within guarantee.

    For me the range isn't quite there yet - need 120 useable miles, and the i3s (nice to drive but handling and suspension are both like a roller skate) with range extended are not under 10k yet.

    I think the secondhand Tesla market is rigged.

    Ferdinand
    • CommentAuthorringi
    • CommentTimeDec 1st 2016 edited
     
    Posted By: ferdinand2000I think the secondhand Tesla market is rigged.


    It is, as it takes so long to get a new one.... A secondhand Tesla may even cost more then a new one when the free supercharging is removed from new sales. (Think of a taxi driver.....)
    • CommentAuthorGarethC
    • CommentTimeDec 2nd 2016
     
    The new Zoe is now available with 186 mile true range for iirc £25-£30k (need to check that), and similar spec cars are imminent. So I'm hoping I can get a second hand one of those in 2-3 years.
    • CommentAuthorgravelld
    • CommentTimeDec 2nd 2016
     
    It's because Teslas are so desirable - same thing happens with a lot of constrained supply, desirable cars.

    Whether it's because it's intentionally rigged or Tesla just doesn't have the operational chops to turn out enough cars... or some other reason... who knows. But intentionally rigging it doesn't sit well with Musk's goals.
  3.  
    I'm contemplating going EV when we change our second car next year. I currently use a 1.4 petrol VW Polo for a daily commute of 23 miles each way on B roads with 50mph limits which I figure is pretty much the ideal usage case for a 24kWhr Leaf or Zoe.

    The problem here in Sweden is that second hand prices are much higher than in the UK, the cheapest 2nd. hand Leaf currently advertised is approx. £14,000 or a Zoe at £12,000 plus battery leasing costs.

    I can only hope that the new longer range EVs will severely impact 2nd. hand prices in the coming year.

    As for the main family car I don't see much prospect of going EV when it is due to be replaced in 2 years time, there is just nothing currently available that would fit the bill, something around Mondeo estate size with a minimum 200 mile range.

    We never buy new, normally going for something around 3 years old. So I don't see much prospect of changing either car to EV until 4 or 5 years time.
  4.  
    If you dont have a driveway, then NO. Where would you charge it. For me its a no brainer. We were thinking about this for my lovely mother-in-law who is in her '80s. An electric car would work really well for her, except her pariking is in an underground carpark below her flat - no electric. She simply would not be able to charge it.
  5.  
    We've put in heavy duty cable for a future charging point. It seems likely that there will be more electric cars. Other than battery performance, there is not much to go wrong with them.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeDec 2nd 2016
     
    Saw my first Tesla in-the-wild today - a Model S 85 - much huge-er than the pics suggest - fat in fact. Definitely not any kind of a pointer to future driver-less cars, which Tesla's presumably interested in.
  6.  
    There's one that does a school run near us, so I see it quite often. You're right, it looks like a large luxury car. People seem to love them once they have them though.
    • CommentAuthorcjard
    • CommentTimeDec 2nd 2016 edited
     
    >Posted By: dimengineer
    >If you dont have a driveway, then NO. Where would you charge it

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=2WToRVUPo6o
  7.  
    Posted By: fostertomSaw my first Tesla in-the-wild today - a Model S 85 - much huge-er than the pics suggest - fat in fact. Definitely not any kind of a pointer to future driver-less cars, which Tesla's presumably interested in.


    Teslas already have a self-driving mode with the latest software update.

    Montreal has the largest Tesla dealership in North America (our cheap electricity helps, too) and we see a lot of them on the streets here. My neighbour has one and two of my friends also.

    Paul in Montreal.
  8.  
    Yep.

    Tesla Ss ARE luxury cars, competing with high end Jags and Mercs.

    I'd say we will be 50% electric in 25 years.

    FErdinand
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeDec 3rd 2016 edited
     
    I think that it may be a bit quicker:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-38170794
    why stop at just banning one combustion fuel class.

    Also, having just watched last nights TGT, they were saying about the low number of driving tests being taken in the UK (4000 last year, down from 14,000).
    Makes me feel a bit smug as during my driving career I have seen the shift from small rear drive cars (good fun to drive) to fast hatchbacks (I have a soft spot for my old 205 and 309 GTIs), which were great fun as we had few speed restrictions in reality.
    Now I am getting older and just find driving a choir, I am looking forward to a totally self driving car.
    Will get me to the Derby and Joan club for lunch, the community centre for a pedicure and a weekly trip to the coast to 'take in the air'.
    •  
      CommentAuthorheng
    • CommentTimeDec 3rd 2016
     
    My impression at the moment is range extending petrol-electric (or a PHEV that allows a purely electric mode) are the (IMO) best compromise. Petrol and regenerative braking go a long way to solving particulate issues and most journeys can be made on pure electric.

    That said, for the price of any car you could by several very nice bicycles. :smile:
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeDec 3rd 2016 edited
     
    Steamy, you've been at that predictive text potion again. Do you take it with Sanatogen or neat?:bigsmile:
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeDec 3rd 2016
     
    Neat

    I am no a fan of the limited range of EVs, or the relatively high cost.
    But I am starting to think that we will be legislated off the roads unless we us them.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeDec 3rd 2016 edited
     
    ferdinand2000 said: "Tesla Ss ARE luxury cars, competing with high end Jags and Mercs."

    I think I read that in America they now outsell the top-end Jags, Mercs, BMWs etc. Yes, here it is:

    http://gas2.org/2016/02/15/tesla-model-s-outsells-mercedes-bmw-audi-and-porsche-in-us/
  9.  
    Some predictions for Lithium-ion battery prices suggest they will be as low as US$100/kWhr by 2025.

    If that is the case then the economics of EVs with 250-300 mile ranges start to look a whole lot better when compared to ICE.

    The VW diesel scandal may well be the best thing that has ever happened the EV with the increased focus and billions now being invested by both VW and others.

    Does anyone know if one was to buy a 2nd. hand Renault Zoe or Fluence which has leased batteries in it can you turn around and say that you don't want the batteries and ask Renault to take them out? There appears to be a growing number of companies you supply upgraded battery packs of 40kWhrs+ and with Zoe prices starting at around £5,000 in the UK it might be a way of having a long range EV at a reasonable price?
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeDec 4th 2016
     
    Is the Renault Zoe a Nissan-Renault joint effort https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault%E2%80%93Nissan_Alliance or even in alliance with Daimler?
  10.  
    Posted By: Chris P BaconThe VW diesel scandal may well be the best thing that has ever happened the EV with the increased focus and billions now being invested by both VW and others.


    http://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/new-vw-golf-and-polo-hybrid-tech-could-be-the-end-of-diesel/ar-AAl55g9?li=BBoPJKX&ocid=mailsignout
  11.  
    And not to be left out of the electric car revolution on this side of Europe - the TRABANT

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-04/electric-trabi-combines-communist-past-with-silent-thrill

    and here you can get a conversion done for about 2k including the price of the (second hand) car. But this uses lead acid batteries and has a limited range but has all the advantages of electric - no road tax, and extended MOT and can be done DIY. LI batteries are an option but cost more.
  12.  
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeDec 4th 2016
     
    Bit about the Trabant this week on the radio:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b084xxm1/episodes/player
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeDec 5th 2016 edited
     
   
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