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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

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  1.  
    We are required to get the above. I'd like a couple of matching boxes. Can electricity be used for gas and vice versa? And where is a good place to buy them?
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJan 16th 2017
     
    No you can't use the same boxes - the gas ones are ventilated I believe, so definitely not IP65. But manufacturers do make matching sets. A web search reveals lots of places to buy them, or use a local builders merchant.
    • CommentAuthorbarney
    • CommentTimeJan 16th 2017
     
    IP 65 sounds extreme for meter enclosures - whose spec are you working to

    Other than that - as the post above

    Barney
  2.  
    Thanks both! We are working to a 'plot passport' issued in addition to a local development order that we are required to comply with. This states:

    Electricity: 'terminate in external recessed IP65 wall box enclosure at dwelling'

    Gas: 'terminating in external wall mounted IP65 meter enclosure'
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeJan 17th 2017
     
    Is this in an area prone to flooding?

    Gas meter housings must be ventilated to the outside so cant be IP65...

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1998/2451/made

    Meter housings

    13.—(1) Where a meter is housed in a meter box or meter compound attached to or built into the external face of the outside wall of any premises, the meter box or meter compound shall be so constructed and installed that any gas escaping within the box or compound cannot enter the premises or any cavity in the wall but must disperse to the external air.


    Go back to whoever wrote the plot passport. If it's in an area prone to flooding you may have to raise the meter cabinet above the expected flood level and provide some means of access (steps?).
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeJan 17th 2017
     
    PS Whatever you do you must get approval from the DNO first as they have their own regulations. They might not agree to connect you if the meter box doesn't meet their rules.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJan 17th 2017
     
    Posted By: ComeOnPilgrimWe are working to a 'plot passport' issued in addition to a local development order that we are required to comply with.

    I don't know what a plot passport is or a local development order, but if it says that then it is manifestly stupid and should be challenged.
    • CommentAuthorsnyggapa
    • CommentTimeJan 18th 2017
     
    i'd be tempted by a different approach. Although manifestly stupid, challenging it is only going to draw attention to it and make it an issue. I would just get two boxes in keeping with the development and get on with it.

    Sometimes there are battles that are best not fought...
  3.  
    Good advice, but too late as I've queried it already! It seems they may have made a mistake and it's only the meter that needs to be IP65, not the box.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJan 18th 2017
     
    It's the utilities that set the specs for boxes and meters though, as dictated by their regulators. So it's their specs you need to follow.
    • CommentAuthorbarney
    • CommentTimeJan 19th 2017
     
    Actually there is a British standard for meter boxes for gas and electricity (each has a standard)

    IP65 enclosures are available (both flush and surface) for both services. They are also available in metal rather than GRP if required

    An IP65 meter is even more of a nonsense - the ingress protection at IP 65 is dust tight and resistant to jetting water

    Regards

    Barney
    • CommentAuthorGreenfish
    • CommentTimeJan 19th 2017
     
    Surface mounted box I assume, so not compromising insulation.

    Box to DNO standard, they won't supply without. That seems to be a useless ugly whitish platic thing with hinges that won't last (door left swinging in the wind during construction, didn't do it any good either. The meter got very wet, but nothing blew).

    But eveyone happy for us to encase it in cedar cladding with matching door like the house walls. No ugly box on view :)
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeJan 19th 2017 edited
     
    In my area when you ask for a quote the utility companies ask you to send them several copies of your site plans. They then mark up one copy with where they expect the meter cabinet to be and send it back to you with the quote. These days their default location is next to the front door. No way we want that so when we sent them the drawings we marked up a set of plans showing where we were going to put the meter cabinet and made sure this was the top copy. This was around the side of the house out of sight. As long as the meter man can get to the cabinet without needing gate keys etc they should be happy.

    Remember that it's usual to put the Consumer Unit close to the meter cabinet. So if you allow them to put the meter cabinet on your front wall you may end up with the CU in your hall. You can put them further apart but it might pay to think about all this when designing the house layout.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJan 19th 2017
     
    Posted By: CWattersRemember that it's usual to put the Consumer Unit close to the meter cabinet. So if you allow them to put the meter cabinet on your front wall you may end up with the CU in your hall. You can put them further apart but it might pay to think about all this when designing the house layout.

    Specifically the meter tails must be less than 3 m in length unless in exceptional conditions. Any longer and there'll need to be a fuse to protect the circuit (mine's about thirty metres!). Also remember that the height of consumer units is quite closely controlled nowadays - they can't be up high to be out of the way, for example.

    The rules about placement of gas meter boxes are even more strict, to do with the routing of the gas supply pipe.
    • CommentAuthorGreenfish
    • CommentTimeJan 19th 2017
     
    "The rules about placement of gas meter boxes are even more strict, to do with the routing of the gas supply pipe."

    Yes, I believe that the supply pipe has to be at 90 deg to the main pipe (so obvious to anyone that is digging where your suppy may run).

    No gas, but electricity we have >3m tails armoured cables running under the slab - obvious supply route to house didn't make a sensible place for the CU. Yes, had to have a 100A RCB alongside the meter. In theory it is to protect from risk if long cable is damaged, so you would think being under the slab in a conduit and armoured would suffice. Beyond the meter the suppy from the pole mounted tranformer is simple 80m of cable just laid in the bottom of a trench (marker tape above), far more at risk. But DNO can do that, sparky doing house side of meter can't. In practice they use distance, and as soon as the CU is not right by the meter a fuss ensues. This RCB caused no end of false tripping issues in the early days, untill it was replaced by one of a different make (and greater expense).

    It seems DNOs do behave differently, but Western Power were very reasonable to deal with.
  4.  
    Another 20m+ armoured cable here to enable me to have the CU in a cupboard off the basement utility room alongside the home automation kit. It was an expensive piece of cable!

    There was no requirement for an MCB or RCB on the armoured cable - just a metalclad switch and a big old cartridge fuse. I seem to remember this switch cost as much as the 15way fully flexible metalclad CU complete with 2 RCBs
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeJan 20th 2017
     
    +1

    I think our tails are a bit over 3m. Think it just meant adding a fuse and a switch in the meter cabinet.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJan 20th 2017
     
    I had thought that extra kit in the meter cabinet was not allowed, whether by the DNO or the electricity/meter supplier I'm not sure, but maybe I'm wrong or perhaps it's only certain areas that operate the rule. My fuse and switch is on the other side of the wall that the meter is mounted on.
  5.  
    The latest update is that our gas meter box is being provided by the infrastructure company, fulcrum. They say that due to the gas pressure, I cannot have a recessed box, I can only have a 40cm do surface mounted box! Anybody any idea what they might be referring to?

    We're planning on putting the boxes on the side of the bike store rather than the main house, so no problem with insulation / air Tightness.
    • CommentAuthorringi
    • CommentTimeJan 20th 2017
     
    Posted By: djhI had thought that extra kit in the meter cabinet was not allowed, whether by the DNO or the electricity/meter supplier I'm not sure, but maybe I'm wrong or perhaps it's only certain areas that operate the rule. My fuse and switch is on the other side of the wall that the meter is mounted on.


    You have to give the DNO/meter supplier there defined space, a standard meter cabinet only has this space..... There is nothing stopping you putting two meter cabinets next to each other apart from your equipment may not be rated to cope with wind driven rain.
    • CommentAuthorringi
    • CommentTimeJan 20th 2017
     
    Posted By: ComeOnPilgrimThe latest update is that our gas meter box is being provided by the infrastructure company, fulcrum. They say that due to the gas pressure, I cannot have a recessed box, I can only have a 40cm do surface mounted box! Anybody any idea what they might be referring to?


    If there is a gas leak, they don't want it going into the inside of a wall!

    However you can have underground gas boxes that stick up only about 20cm above ground. (Not for electric due to flooding risk!)
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeJan 21st 2017
     
    Modern electric meters are pretty small so there should be room for a switch and fuse in one cabinet. There was on ours and some left over.
    • CommentAuthorringi
    • CommentTimeJan 21st 2017 edited
     
    Posted By: CWattersModern electric meters are pretty small so there should be room for a switch and fuse in one cabinet. There was on ours and some left over.


    If at any point they come to work on the meter and find anything in the way on their bit of plywood you will be disconnected and sent a large bill for re-connection. You don't know how large the meters and time switches etc will be if they charge the type of system they fit.

    But the staff like an easy life, so would rather get the job done if possible, so avoiding filling in the form.....
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