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    • CommentTimeApr 5th 2017 edited
    • CommentTimeApr 5th 2017
    Well it sounds good but it also smells like bullshit. So I eagerly await somebdoy who can translate what she said into something that a physicist can understand and a politician can act by to reach the same result.
    • CommentAuthorgyrogear
    • CommentTimeApr 5th 2017
    er... I'm still looking for the bit about the thieving, conniving, corrupt bankers ??

    • CommentTimeApr 5th 2017
    Tis easy Dave.
    Decide what answer you want, then design an experiment to prove it. Done all the time in the post-modernist world.

    Easy to get politicians to act, threaten them with 'the popular vote', Cameron fell for it, then vanished.
    • CommentTimeApr 5th 2017
    I doubt this author has done any hypothesis/testing, any more than the whole superstructure of mainstream economics has been subjected to, the last 170yrs-plus. It's all a bunch of ideas, not a science, any more than 'political science' is.

    I'll tell you when I've read it. I discovered the snag of being plugged-in to the latest - it costs launch-hardback price, not Amazon 'new and used' cheap paperback price!
    Kindle: ÂŁ9.99.

    Where I always start:

    "Kate Raworth is a renegade economist focused on exploring the economic mindset needed to address the 21st century’s social and ecological challenges, and is the creator of the Doughnut of social and planetary boundaries.

    She is a Senior Visiting Research Associate at Oxford University’s Environmental Change Institute, where she teaches on the Masters in Environmental Change and Management. She is also a Senior Associate at the Cambridge Institute for Sustainability Leadership.

    Her internationally acclaimed idea of Doughnut Economics has been widely influential amongst sustainable development thinkers, progressive businesses and political activists, and she has presented it to audiences ranging from the UN General Assembly to the Occupy movement. Her book, Doughnut Economics: seven ways to think like a 21st century economist is being published in the UK and US in April 2017 and translated into Italian, German, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch and Japanese.

    Over the past 20 years, Kate’s career has taken her from working with micro-entrepreneurs in the villages of Zanzibar to co-authoring the Human Development Report for UNDP in New York, followed by a decade as Senior Researcher at Oxfam.

    She holds a first class BA in Politics, Philosophy and Economics, and an MSc in Economics for Development, both from Oxford University. She is a member of the Club of Rome and serves on several advisory boards, including the Stockholm School of Economics’ Global Challenges programme, the University of Surrey’s Centre for the Understanding of Sustainable Prosperity, and Oxford University’s Environmental Change Institute.

    She has written extensively for media including The Guardian, The New Statesman, Newsweek.com, and Wired.com, and has contributed to many radio programmes including for BBC Radio 4, The World Service, ABC and NPR, as well as television including CNN World News, Al-Jazeera, BBC, ITV and CBC. The Guardian has named her as “one of the top ten tweeters on economic transformation”."

    And committed, too:

    "Blimey. Just for a little moment in time, Doughnut Economics is Amazon #1 bestseller in Macroeconomics. Take that on the nose, neoliberalism"
    • CommentTimeApr 6th 2017
    That's a good resource - I'll check out my favourite renegade authors.
    • CommentAuthorgravelld
    • CommentTimeApr 6th 2017
    Where love meets social justice
    How goes the studying, Tom?

    Herr Monbiot is enthusiastic:

    "I see her as the John Maynard Keynes of the 21st century: by reframing the economy, she allows us to change our view of who we are, where we stand, and what we want to be."

    I suspect an element of confirmation bias there, though - since he seems to engage with the rhetoric rather than looking at any analysis.
    • CommentTimeApr 13th 2017 edited
    Going great - got to the point where she says that there's never been
    Posted By: ferdinand2000any analysis
    or research to confirm or deny whether the basic hypotheses of Economic 'science' - e.g. humans as rational, self-interested decision makers, whose consequent choices are reliably reflected in price, supply and demand etc - are true or not.

    Until the last 40yrs of 'behavioural psychology' experiments - which demonstrate the complete falacy of that pillar of Economics, but which have been avidly (realistically and effectively) exploited by marketeers, while Economics has continued in impotent delusion (my words).

    So Monbiot is allowed to respond to this as rhetoric, just as populations, Economists and governments responded to Keynes as rhetoric, and so on back 170yrs via Marx and others to Adam Smith and earlier. Economics is Politics, Ideology, not a science that anyone's bothering to verify or disprove. Don't get me wrong - there's all sorts of impressively professional number-crunching in Economics - but in service of a chimera.

    In fact Paul Samuelson, father and writer of standard teaching-textbooks of mainstream post-WW2 Economics said
    "It should be clear that there is a wide gate for ideology to enter into this process. In fact it enters on the very ground floor, into the preanalytic cognitive act of which we have been speaking. Analytic work begins with material provided by our vision of things, and this vision is ideological almost by definition".

    So look at this book as a new vision, rhetorical if you want to tar it with a brush - don't ask for proof any more than we ask for proof of the politics and economics that have shaped our world to the increasingly unequal vast benefit of a few, the destitution of very many (though reducing apparently, to be sure) and the devastation of our planetary support systems (worsening by the day).
    • CommentAuthortorrent99
    • CommentTimeApr 13th 2017
    Just reading Monbiot's boil down, I like the idea. Basically she (or is it Monbiot) seems to be saying that

    1) just measuring "growth" is a bad idea. We need to measure a much larger number of variables.
    2) Rather than aim for Maximizing or Minimizing a variable we need to aim to keep them within a range that does not force people into poverty at one end or damage the environment (physical, social etc) at the other.

    Not read any more than Monbiot, but that in itself would be a huge step forward. It's something that some politicians have even paid a tiny bit of lip service to e.g. Cameron's "happiness" drive...(cynical though that was)
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeApr 13th 2017
    Not read the book but have read Monbiot's piece and watched her TEDx talk:


    Seems to me that torrent99's two points aren't a terrible summary.
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