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    •  
      CommentAuthorJustin
    • CommentTimeApr 14th 2017
     
    So, I can do the homework up-front, but but will admit that before this post so far I haven't.

    Anyone prepared to accept this laziness, and offering a quick leg-up into the EWI arena could start me off?

    A "Customer/Friend" is buying a late 1960's detached house, standard brick and filled cavity. Has asked me if I'll consider taking on EWI. I said I'd look into it to see if we could undercut the trades who specialize in it.
    I'm a bit of an all-trades person, have done quite a bit of remedial IWI. (I'm also Electronic engineer, and these days primarily an Electrician). (- I can "do" u values and energy calculations etc :cool: ).

    Talk to me about permeable, breathable, materials, renders, and position of dew-points, plus..(this one I can't get my head around..).. - Replacement windows are in this case NOT in the budget right now. So doing EWI and weathering the reveals with existing windows sounds to me like a really tricky one, - maybe a show-stopper?

    Justin
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeApr 14th 2017 edited
     
    All easy, eps, foamed on, mesh, mechanical fixings through mesh, likely nylon, high tech render, all breathable

    I would go 300mm of eps, right down into the ground.

    Reveals are easy. Same as normal render, use plastic trims and beads, form drip at the head, extend sills, stop bead against the frame.
    •  
      CommentAuthorJustin
    • CommentTimeApr 16th 2017
     
    Hi Tony.
    Thanks for the input. I'll read and digest some more related to each of those points before getting beck to your succinct reply :)
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeApr 18th 2017
     
    Posted By: tonymechanical fixings through mesh
    only necessar if the existing surface isn't strong - like flaky paint or unsound render - otherwise cementitious adhesive fixing (or as tony says 'foamed on') direct to the wall is fine.

    I prefer Parex not least because of the ready and willing on-site advice and guidance given by their tech rep, who in SW England at least is excellent. He looks at the wall, advises which of their product range should apply, may quantify/schedule, connects you with their regional distributor for prices. Note that the EPS itself will come from another (or it may happen to be the same) source - regional insulation supplier.
  1.  
    Over here the mechanical fixings are put in before the mesh and the dents made by the fixings are filled, then the adhesive is trowelled on, notched with a 10mm toothed float, the mesh applied and then the whole lot floated flat. 3 days later the final thin film render is applied. (there is also a 3 day wait between the fixing of the EPS sheets and the installation of the mechanical fixings)
  2.  
    its pretty straight forward , plenty more suppliers now , check out the web and EBAY for materials
    thicker the better as mentioned use the various beads etc.
    just got the all gear for a 150m2 for about £2500, 100mm EPS
    its easier than plasterer or rendering as the boards make trowel simple to get flat
    • CommentAuthorgravelld
    • CommentTimeApr 23rd 2017
     
    £16/m2? Sign me up.
    •  
      CommentAuthorJustin
    • CommentTimeApr 24th 2017
     
    What do we think about non-breathable options such as those "systems" supplied by Kingspan in their PIR?
    They would be more compact, which is the point.
    http://www.kingspaninsulation.co.uk/kins_cms/media/media.global/Optim-R-Ext-Wall-System-1st-Issue-July-13.pdf
    It seems to me maybe if there is already a cavity wall fill (eg blown glass in a 2" cavity), there just might be a possibility of reaching dew-point on the inside of the EWI VCL?
  3.  
    PIR/PUR as EWI just seems unnecessarily expensive for little advantage unless only a thin layer can be applied.
    my understanding is a basic rule of thumb is as long as theres more on the (EWI) outside your ok
    • CommentAuthorgravelld
    • CommentTimeApr 24th 2017
     
    Calculate the land value that would be freed by using PIR and compare it to the increase in the PIR quote.

    And add a little for having thinner walls, if that aesthetic is important.

    And obviously run the moisture analysis.
    •  
      CommentAuthorJustin
    • CommentTimeApr 24th 2017
     
    This is a large 5 bed 1960's cavity wall property. Plan A (If possible) is to utilize existing gable and eaves overhangs and work within those. I haven't visited yet, it looks like 100mm is possible on the gables, and rather more on the elevations.
    Moisture analysis- This is Southern UK and it's a fairly high volume house so I wouldn't expect (other than in bathrooms) to commonly exceed 75% at say 20C. (Customer also wants MVHR so that will help keep it drier). What external conditions do we commonly apply for a moisure analysis as a rule of thumb? -5C,,0C..+5C ?
    • CommentAuthorgravelld
    • CommentTimeApr 24th 2017
     
    Yeah, the approach in my thinking is to install the amount I want, because the roof will need redoing anyway to perform to the same level. At that point, you can re-establish the same profile.

    For example, there's next to no overhang on the gables, so I'll have to fit those caps for now. When the roof gets done, extend it over and get rid of the caps.
    •  
      CommentAuthorJustin
    • CommentTimeApr 25th 2017
     
    @gravelld - "Caps" ? - Are you discussing some sort of weathering on the top of the gable EWI, or have I guessed that wrongly?

    It sounds like it would look goofy, even if it did work.
  4.  
    Not all EWId houses have the ducks, but this is the sort of capping. Does not look great, but its worst downside, to me, is the reliance on a blurge of silicone as the only thing stopping water running down the back of the EWI.
      DSCF3126.JPG
    • CommentAuthorgravelld
    • CommentTimeApr 25th 2017
     
    Agree it's ugly and more prone to issues, but in the absence of another £nnk to sort the roof...
  5.  
    I am looking at EWI for my Bungalow project, but the quote has come in at about £125/sqm inc VAT for my desired supplier.

    So I am taking a canter round DIY.

    Is there anybody within say an hour or so of Mansfield who I could visit to see one that has been DIYed?

    I will whisper contact details.

    Cheers

    Ferdinand
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeApr 26th 2017 edited
     
    Posted By: Nick Parsonsthis is the sort of capping
    What about this traditional, possibly regional detail - cant remember what it's called (pic is the only one I can find, modern lash-up but illustrates the principle).

    Traditionally (I can picture Radstock Victorian terrace cottages) tiles would stop flush with gable brickwork, no overhang, bedding or undercloak; fascia fixed against their edge and a 4" to 6" wide cover board fixed to top edge of that, tight on top of the tiles. Works best with profiled tiles e.g. pans or double romans so water gets channeled downward, doesn't creep under the board; with flat slates the cover board wd have to be much wider, or not done at all.

    This could be adapted so the fascia is fixed to the face of the EWI and a broader cover board fixed to top edge of that, covering top of the EWI and tight on top of the tiles. Could be handsome if done right. Anyone got any pics of traditional usage - usually looks 'right' if copied.
      capping board.jpg
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeApr 26th 2017
     
    Posted By: fostertomWhat about this traditional, possibly regional detail - cant remember what it's called (pic is the only one I can find, modern lash-up but illustrates the principle).

    I think the piece on top is called a capping board. They're very common around here in Suffolk but I don't recall seeing them elsewhere. They don't look as strange in the flesh as they do in an isolated photograph, but they might be odd if there are no other houses with them nearby.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeApr 26th 2017
     
    O'course it's not just the capping board on top - it's a whole different detail, which must have a name.
  6.  
    You don't have to use proprietary stuff. I saw a lovely pic (probably linked from here) of a lovely lead eaves detail (IIRC 150 EWI where roof used to finish no more than 30mm past original wall face). I can't remember details (and cannot find the pic - grrrr), but the gutter was incorporated in the lead detail. There is also a proprietary alu detail (maybe whisper me to avoid free widespread advertising for them?). I'll be using lead or lead substitute when I do an EWI job in May/June.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeApr 26th 2017
     
    I think it's legitimate and helpful to recommend or even just mention proprietary products - us punters are in a different category to someone who'd be selling you something, however ideal and excellent that thing may be. The latter needs to be very circumspect; the rest of us should be free to be helpful (or indeed to warn, name names).
    • CommentAuthorgravelld
    • CommentTimeApr 26th 2017
     
    Just link to the image if you can Nick, or embed it...
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeApr 26th 2017
     
    Posted By: fostertomI think it's legitimate and helpful to recommend or even just mention proprietary products - us punters are in a different category to someone who'd be selling you something, however ideal and excellent that thing may be. The latter needs to be very circumspect; the rest of us should be free to be helpful (or indeed to warn, name names).

    Seconded, IMHO.
  7.  
    I shall take that as a go-ahead, then! (OK Keith? ;-) )

    www.ewipro.co.uk.

    A colleague used it on a retrofit near Manchester. Not cheap, but I was impressed with the quality.
    • CommentAuthorgravelld
    • CommentTimeApr 26th 2017
     
    Thanks Nick, looks like you can use just the verge system separately too, useful for my case I think because we have semi decent sized soffits, about 200mm.
    • CommentAuthorskyewright
    • CommentTimeApr 27th 2017 edited
     
    Posted By: gravelldThanks Nick, looks like you can use just the verge system separately too, useful for my case I think because we have semi decent sized soffits, about 200mm.

    I'd love to take a look but for some weird reason the site doesn't seem to work for me (even with JavaScript enabled),
    I'm assuming that the area under "EWI Verge Profile" on http://www.ewipro.co.uk/ewi-verge-profile/ shouldn't be just blank?
    I'm using FF52.0.2 on Ubuntu.
  8.  
    I'm assuming that the area under "EWI Verge Profile" on shouldn't be just blank?

    Hi Skyewright - which part of the site is that on?
    • CommentAuthorskyewright
    • CommentTimeApr 27th 2017 edited
     
    Posted By: Nick Parsons
    Hi Skyewright - which part of the site is that on?

    Ah! I'd included a link in the post, but it got hidden because I'd enclosed it between < & >.
    I've now edited the original post...

    PS. I found that page using the site map. I resorted to the site map as the rest of what I could see (i.e. via normal links) didn't seem to show any useful detail either.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeApr 27th 2017
     
    The site is pretty useless. The page you mention is indeed devoid of content.
    • CommentAuthorMarkyP
    • CommentTimeApr 27th 2017 edited
     
    none of these capping solutions look very good to me. Puzzled why, having gone to the expense of EWI, you wouldnt just extend the verge overhang. I've done this in readiness for my EWI, admittedly we were re-roofing but otherwise still not hard to take back a few tiles (if the interlocking type) from the verge and fit a gable rafter to extend the verge overhang, various ways to do it. Doubt this is something any EWI firm like to get involved in, much easier to put a plastic trim up. But scaffold will be there so not a hugely expensive or challenging job for a roofer or chippy.
   
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