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    • CommentAuthoranth.payne
    • CommentTimeApr 26th 2017 edited
    Currently in conversations with some architects about getting plans drawn up. The cost to draw up plans and submit to planning is c.£1500 inc planning fee.

    However, how much should I expect to be paying to get to building warrant stage in Scotland? This seems to be way more expensive... about £7k inc. a structural engineer.
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeApr 26th 2017
    Can't remember the planning and warrant fees but think they were about £1000 each.

    House designer charged about £2000+VAT for his work. I paid him the first half when the planning app was accepted.

    Another £1000+VAT for the structural engineer but his bid was a lot lower than the others. Picked partly because of that but mostly because he was physically closer and then seemed more responsive but that turned out not to help much.

    Another £600+VAT (I think it was) for the SAP certificate. Originally the house designer was going to do that but they changed the rules so his qualifications wouldn't cover it.

    So probably about £6k+ to be able to start work.
    • CommentTimeApr 26th 2017
    Depends what kind of service you're expecting. Lots of architects, architectural technicians, surveyors, plan-drawers out there operating at the cheap end of the market.

    If like Ed you've got the form, siting and every detail researched and worked out, then you just need someone to record all that, maybe do the forms, make applications, correspond with the bureacracy - but that's unusual - and are you sure they will do that comprehensively and accurately?

    Next case is when the builder is called in first and he gets his favoured cheap ditto to draw just the minimum necessary to get consents and get started on site without much preparatory thought but allow himself as much wiggle-room as poss as he solves problems as they appear and trims the delivered product as necessary to come out financially ahead.

    Variant on that is where the cheap ditto is commissioned first and does similar (leaving max builder's wiggle-room in lieu of thinking/discussing/designing everything first). As all the detail is left 'open' the client has no ability to enforce anything and has to be grateful for what he ends up with.

    On the other hand, you may want your designer to think/discuss/design everything first, to define that sweet point of elaboration vs simplicity, true economy vs mere cheapness, which gives the client most of what they desire in the most optimised way. Where anything left out would save a little but spoil utility and enjoyment greatly; where any 'unforeseen' costs (because not anticipated/integrated in) cost a lot but add little if any to utility and enjoyment. In fact such 'unforeseens' usually appear as bodges or compromises, so actually decrease utility and enjoyment.

    My message is - if you seek 'cheap' plan-drawing, you'll readily find it but may regret the false economy forever.
    • CommentTimeApr 26th 2017
    Planning is just drawing some pretty pictures. Building regs in England (which I suppose corresponds to warrant in Scotland?) involves a lot more work. It means designing something that can be built, that will stand up and not fall down or rot, that will not cost too much to heat, and includes systems. It requires engineering as well as architectural input. It also needs to be proceeding well before applying for planning IMHO. It's also useful to have access to the designer during the build to answer questions about details, especially where they involve people like window suppliers, and to prepare any extra drawings that are required to make the building easier. So I'd recommend using one of the standard contracts over the whole build.
    • CommentAuthoranth.payne
    • CommentTimeApr 26th 2017
    Thanks both

    Cheap is not the primary objective, I just don't want to be fleeced.

    The costs are stacking up as follows:

    Design and planning submission: £1000
    Topographic Survey: £400
    Planning application fee: £400
    Building Warrant designs: £4000
    Structural Engineer: £3000

    Having said that, I've been speaking to a structural engineer who has quoted £1000 (plus a bit extra for excavation for the site survey), who is local but not available for a couple month (which suits me as still need to sort planning)
    • CommentTimeApr 26th 2017 edited
    Adding D&P £1k and Warrant (Building Regs in England) £4k, that in total is what I'd charge (RIBA Recommended fee) for those 2 architectural work-stages for a bespoke house of £110k build-cost (excl VAT), except I'd split the £5k total £3k for D&P, £2k for Building Regs.

    I'd say £1k for D&P is dirt-cheap - low end of the 'cheap' I described above - you'll get what you pay for.

    As well as £2k for Building Regs drawings, I'd charge another £2k for drawings/spec, for tender, contract, construction and project admin - Building Regs drawings aren't fit for any of those, unless you're self-project-managing and have all the detail in your head. For more ambitious EcoBuilding, PH even, I'd charge more on top. I wouldn't charge VAT but others would - add that on.

    Your Survey figure a bit light, Ap fee too, if it's both Planning and Building Regs. Struct Eng usually about £1k + VAT, assuming he only does A4 calcs and I draw up the result as part of the Building Regs and drawings/spec.
    • CommentAuthoranth.payne
    • CommentTimeApr 26th 2017
    Yes, I haven't included an application fee for the warrant there.

    D&P for £1k did seem cheap, but I also got a similar quote elsewhere. I think in the Scottish Borders, it is relatively cheap. I've seen a number of this architects projects, and they seem very well considered.

    Structural engineer said the £1k will include all drawings, calculations and certificate for building warrant application. It will also include all drawings etc suitable for TF manufacture.

    I have a very clear idea of what I want, down to quite fine detail. So perhaps this helps. I'm also considering doing the tender myself.. I have experience in this (although not in construction!). Perhaps with some support form the architect
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeApr 26th 2017
    Posted By: djhIt also needs to be proceeding well before applying for planning IMHO.
    Absolutely. It would be easy to paint yourself into a corner where you're stuck with either a design which is not quite what you want or awkward to build or needing to get a minor variation to the planning permission if you've not thought through the details. Things like the exact height of the roof line or the alignment of the windows.
    My Build was in England, but similar to the others on this thread the fee that I paid my architect for the second stage of the process (technical design / building regs), was higher than for the first stage (planning design).

    The fees I paid my architect were multiples higher than what you've quoted above. Their service was excellent, they thought of every detail, which made the whole process a lot smoother, and I don't regret a penny.
    • CommentAuthorcjard
    • CommentTimeMay 2nd 2017 edited
    Posted By: anth.payne..couple month (which suits me as still need to sort planning)

    Where is this mystical land where you can go from zero to full planning approval in 8 weeks?
    ...it's the engineer that isn't available for a couple of months, i.e. well within the timescales for planning... however, I wasn't trying to be so literal
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