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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
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    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeMay 2nd 2017
     
    Are there any tricks to driving nails right in with a nail gun when they're at a skew angle?

    Doing the last 10 mm or so with a hammer with 90 mm ring nails is hard work when they're at an awkward angle with not much space behind them. In retrospect I should have just used 75 mm rings for that - just noggins but between quite closely spaced rafters.
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeMay 2nd 2017
     
    The chances of achieving a full drive in @ 45 degrees or so every time is slim IMO.
    I use an air fed framing nailer 75mm for stud work etc., and like you I often have to resort to final tapping the nails home a bit. I have to watch compressor air pressure too for when the pressure drops it has a detrimental effect, as does hitting a knot or slipping with the auto safety release on the nail gun end.
    Sorry I cant offer a fail safe answer but one method I've used in the past, is to "spike" the timber with a smaller finishing type nailer to position the wood in the first place. You can then make a more accurate, possibly two handed, attempt with the framing nailer, knowing that the wood won't slip.
    I hope that makes sense.
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeMay 2nd 2017
     
    Mine's a gas gun (Paslode IM360Ci) so at least I don't have the issue of the pressure dropping.

    Agreed, getting the wood fixed first makes it easier. With the weight of the gun and nailing overhead I had to do it two handed anyway so I clamped a block behind the noggin to allow me to press the gun up to it without it shifting. They actually moved about 3 mm when the gun fired fairly consistently so I allowed for that in positioning.
  1.  
    have you got the depth set to full?
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeMay 2nd 2017 edited
     
    Yes, a little beyond full. I had it set to drive them flush then turned it to the end stop just beyond that. Haven't driven one in square since but think it would go in a mm or two. I was wondering if I'd missed something, though, and there was a way to set it go further but couldn't see it on the device or in the instructions.
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeMay 2nd 2017 edited
     
    one of the problems with many nailers, especially the bigger guns, is "bounce/recoil" and getting enough hand pressure behind the gun to prevent it.

    P.S. more porridge for breakfast Ed:bigsmile::wink:
    • CommentAuthorcjard
    • CommentTimeMay 2nd 2017
     
    My Hitachi NR90 will skew nail flush if skewed up and down, but not left/right. This is with depth setting on max and 80mm ring nails.. You might want to try using shorter or smooth nails, or push comes to shove, adjust the shape of the tip of your gun (take a grinder to it and shorten the side points) so the bit where the nail fires out of is closer to the work. Ultimately, it may be that the combination of gas age, cylinder charge, wood hardness, nail resistance and depth setting means you cannot get them flush but consider that with skew nailing ring nails you don't really need it fully flush; the wood's grip on the nail shaft, and glue impregnation (the nails are coated in glue that is activated by the heat of friction from driving them in) at the alternating angles, will hold the work securely. You don't need the extra bit that a tiny clipped head nail will give you.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeMay 2nd 2017
     
    Is there any sort of lubricant that can be put on that will disperse. Don' want the nails coming loose.
    Maybe a bit of soapy water.
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeMay 2nd 2017
     
    Posted By: owlmanP.S. more porridge for breakfast Ed
    Yep, spending a winter with the most strenuous exercise being reaching up to the function keys doesn't help.

    Posted By: cjardMy Hitachi NR90 will skew nail flush if skewed up and down, but not left/right.
    Yep, can get closer sideways than up/down on mine, IIRC.

    You might want to try using shorter or smooth nails, or push comes to shove, adjust the shape of the tip of your gun (take a grinder to it and shorten the side points)
    I did wonder about that but I think it's just the geometry of the head mechanism rather than lack of puff or recoil.

    but consider that with skew nailing ring nails you don't really need it fully flush;
    Good point: a 90 mm nail in all but 10 mm would still have more grip than a 75 mm nail fully in given that the rings (and glue - interesting didn't realise about that) are presumably more significant than the relatively small head.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeMay 3rd 2017
     
    Posted By: SteamyTeaIs there any sort of lubricant that can be put on
    I didn't realise about the glue either - so I guess no lubricant poss?
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeMay 3rd 2017
     
    Posted By: SteamyTeaIs there any sort of lubricant that can be put on that will disperse.
    The problem isn't that the nail gun doesn't have the omph to bang the nails in - it can push the same nails in to full depth when straight on. The problem is that the metal guard thing which enables the trigger is out to the side a bit so when you're skew the position in space it thinks is the surface it's aiming to knock the nails flush with is a few mm short of the actual surface. You can adjust the depth it's hammering to a bit which helps but not quite enough.
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeMay 3rd 2017 edited
     
    "The problem is that the metal guard thing which enables the trigger is out to the side a bit so when you're skew the position in space it thinks is the surface it's aiming to knock the nails flush with is a few mm short of the actual surface. You can adjust the depth it's hammering to a bit which helps but not quite enough."

    Exactly! and short of "doctoring " the metal guard, actually the trigger release/safety catch as cjard suggests, the plunger hammer that strikes the nail will usually only go so far out, as you say.
    I don't know how complex Paslode guns are in respect of the piston/hammer linkage and if there is room for adjustment there. Some of the air fed guns may be a bit more basic but I have my doubts.
    • CommentAuthorbarney
    • CommentTimeMay 3rd 2017
     
    Is the rubber cap still on the nailer - if so take it off - adjust the depth stop to allow decent penetration when you are nailing "straight on"

    For skew nailing - smack the nailer hard against the work at about 75 - 80 degrees with the metal "teeth" digging well in - then angle the nailer back to about 25 - 30 degrees and hold the nailer down hard and fire

    I've put 90mm stainless ring shanks in so the head is touching using the above - that's with a Bostich framing nailer and a decent compressor - it is "robust work" however - get your weight behind it

    All of that said - a few mm protrusion isn't a problem - the nails are doing the job anyway - it just doesn't look "right"

    Have a bit of a practice - you'll soon see if your particular nailer can achieve full penetration when skew nailing (or toe nailing depending on where you hail from)

    Regards

    Barney
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeMay 3rd 2017
     
    Posted By: barneyIs the rubber cap still on the nailer
    I haven't noticed a rubber cap. What does it do? Where should I look? This is a Paslode gas gun.

    For skew nailing - smack the nailer hard against the work at about 75 - 80 degrees…
    Interesting, will give it a try.
    • CommentAuthorbarney
    • CommentTimeMay 3rd 2017
     
    Not familiar with Paslode - there is often a soft cap covering the claw bit that contacts the wood - if you can see the claw then that's it - bang it hard against the workpiece as I suggested

    Regards

    Barney
    • CommentAuthorcjard
    • CommentTimeMay 3rd 2017 edited
     
    I've only ever seen the rubber cap on a second fix nailer that fires 16ga pins; people tend not to be bothered about marking the sort of wood that gets hit with a framing nailer, as it's not usually decorative

    Be careful pounding on the back of your framing nailer/smashing it into the work to dig the claw into the wood and achieve a deeper sink; the mechanism you're beating on has a fairly flimsy hinge made partly of cast aluminium and if you break it, the finger that presses the gas cylinder and charges the gun will fail, ruining your gun. I know this because it's exactly what's happened with my brother's bostitch, twice.
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeMay 4th 2017
     
    Posted By: cjardI've only ever seen the rubber cap on a second fix nailer that fires 16ga pins; people tend not to be bothered about marking the sort of wood that gets hit with a framing nailer, as it's not usually decorative
    That makes sense, thanks. I'm sure my nailer doesn't have that - all the parts which come close to the wood are metal.
    • CommentAuthorFred56
    • CommentTimeMay 5th 2017
     
    I have bought two Dewalt first fix nailers. The first generation one was useless and I sent it straight back, jammed repeatedly and driving heads in was totally inconsistent. Second generation was better but still inconsistent. The Dewalt can't drive 90mm ring shanks, just plains. Skew nailing invariably left the heads exposed even using 76mm nails. You need to keep your hammer with you. I sold the second generation one after about a month. And yes I lost a bundle on it.
    Lesson, don't buy Dewalt first fix nailers and don't pension off your hammer.

    Dewalt second fix brad nailer is just fine, had mine 5 years.
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeMay 5th 2017
     
    Yep, I looked online at Dewalt and Makita first-fix nailer reviews but nobody seemed overly enthusiastic.

    Posted By: Fred56The Dewalt can't drive 90mm ring shanks, just plains.
    The “classic” Paslode is the IM350 which can do 75mm ring and 90 mm smooth nails but not 90 mm rings so that's a fairly standard limitation.

    The one I got is the IM360 which is fairly new and somewhat more powerful so can do 90 mm ring. Downside is the nails are a bit more expensive than Paslode's IM350 nails (the nails are the same but they come with the gas canisters which are different) and you can't use clone nail/gas packs from other manufacturers which are a lot cheaper. Yet. The chap in the shop explained the differences very well and thought the patent [Âą] on the new gas cylinders ran out in about a year when clones would likely be available.

    The other big difference is the IM360 has a lithium ion battery (the IM350's still NiCd) so should last better and be easier to manage. Though I'll probably finish up spending more overall (gun and nails combined) it won't be a huge amount as the IM360 was on offer so cheaper than Screwfix's price for the IM350 but I'm hoping it'll have better resale value in a year or two.

    [Âą] Perhaps actually registered design, I speculate.
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