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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
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    • CommentAuthordereke
    • CommentTimeJul 21st 2017
    In a few weeks I'll hopefully be installing some bifold doors into my timber frame office.

    Construction is:
    100mm timber frame insulated with celetox
    100mm celetox EWI behind larch cladding.

    I realise my walls aren't that thick but is it worth trying to build a plywood box to mount the door in the insulation layer? Will it make that much of a difference?
    • CommentAuthormarsaday
    • CommentTimeJul 22nd 2017
    Bifolds have a very low fitting tolerance and often need adjusting. So i think the framing has to be good. We have 2 bifold on the back of the house and i hate them. All going soon as doing new extension.

    I spoke to a mate last week about these windows as well and he fits them regularly. Has no end of trouble with them as well. Sliding patio doors are a better product.
    • CommentAuthordereke
    • CommentTimeJul 22nd 2017
    I am reading more and more of these accounts and it does make me question whether they are a good option.
    • CommentTimeJul 22nd 2017
    We chose a lift-and-slide since it allows all the seals to be compression seals instead of sliding seals, and so has a longer expected life.
    We looked at different options for sliding doors. Bifold, tilt & slide and lift & slide. We decided on lift & slide because being triple glazed they looked the better option for strength and airtightness.
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeJul 23rd 2017
    I have two sets of bi-folds. One set to external and one set, (external grade) separating my sunroom from the rest of the house. I have no problems with either set. Bi-folds generally, are either top running, or bottom mounted, or some with a combination of the two, which I opted for.
    For the wall to wall vista, which I needed lift and slide couldn't compete, unless you can hide the glass slides in one or both of the house walls at either side; very few can.
    Provided you have good, and very accurate, structural top and bottom mountings then the sides are less important, and can easily be dealt with. I used Glulam overhead in both cases, and was fastidious with the cill mount levelling, and I've not had a problem.
    One set was bought in complete and fitted by me from a specialist bi-fold manufacturer. The second one was made locally from engineered Oak, and fitted by me.
    Both sets are flush with the internal floors a detail I particularly wanted. The external, outward opening, set has outward facing storm sealed rebates and a 150mm drop to ground level which has now been made almost flush with decking.
    The weakness of bi-folds are the numerous butting stiles and different manufacturers use different solutions, some rebated, some butted together, with compression seals. Some seals direct into wood and some in aluminium carriers in the case of wood bi-folds.
    • CommentAuthorgravelld
    • CommentTimeJul 25th 2017 edited
    AFAIK there is a PH certified bi fold - heard about it on a podcast, whisper if you want the name.

    Not sure if there are others, and also not sure how much PH-certification tells you about long term AT...

    Anyway, your question was about the best way to mount them...
    • CommentAuthorgoodevans
    • CommentTimeJul 26th 2017 edited
    In answer to your question - I have been doing some work in Therm - Moving doors and windows into the insulation layer is a measurable benefit.

    Using Therm I've done some crude modelling for my own benefit. My situation is different in that I will have eps over a single skin block wall. but here goes...

    Assuming a 1.2m x 1.2m window with a Uw of 1.1 installing the window into the dense blockwork layer makes the equivalent Uinstalled equal to 1.27, installing into Aircrete makes the equivalent Uinstalled 1.15. (when compared to installing the window in the insulation layer).

    In your situation the frame length to window area ratio is less so the net effect will be less, in addition your timber frame is a better insulator than aircrete so again installing in this layer will be less of an issue. I would go for physical stability of the door and therefore mount in the strongest/easiest place.
    • CommentAuthorgoodevans
    • CommentTimeJul 26th 2017
    Another way of putting it is a 2.4mx2.1m door mounted in the insulation layer will be 0.5 W/K more efficient at most (9m of frame .0155 W/mK).

    However there are other reasons for mounting outboard - more space inside, lager internal sill for the wife to put plants on , standard looking sills outside.
    ''lager internal sill for the wife to put plants on''

    Surely to put her lager on?
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2017
    That'd be Pils on the sills then.
    • CommentAuthordereke
    • CommentTimeJul 28th 2017
    You guys have got this all wrong - it is my office and it will be my whisky :bigsmile:

    @goodevans thanks for sharing those calcs it is really helpful.
    • CommentAuthorgoodevans
    • CommentTimeJul 28th 2017
    No probs - Calcs I can do (but not validated or sanity checked by anyone here) - clearly speling is not my strong point. - Trouble is when someone has delivered a wise crack you can't even go back and fix it.
    ''Trouble is when someone has delivered a wise crack you can't even go back and fix it.''

    Oh, you can! It exercises the mind to try to work out what caused the wise-crack once the original mistake has been corrected!

    And please be assured my flippancy is entirely benign!
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