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    • CommentAuthorlineweight
    • CommentTimeJul 25th 2017
     
    Trying to work out the best option for dealing with the sill/threshold detail for a triple glazed sliding door (aluminium frames) that I'm about to do as a DIY install.

    I'm waiting for clarification from the supplier but my understanding is that the system is designed such that any water that finds its way into the aluminium frame is directed to drip out of the underside of the bottom member. This obviously creates a need for some kind of sub-sill that then makes sure this water ends up outside.

    A look on youtube at standard aluminium sliding window installs brings up lots of examples where a "sill pan" is used. Basically a tray with a small upstand at the sides and rear, in varying materials - PVC, aluminium, unidentified flashing materials. eg:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9mwBElewQA

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgNRHLXNZ1o&t=33s

    Then the aluminium bottom frame/track is blocked up from this slightly.

    But google doesn't really give me anything if I look for somewhere I can buy a "sill pan" in the UK.

    Does this mean it's just not a conventional method here, or is it that I'm googling an american terminology rather than whatever our equivalent is here?

    Is anyone familiar with the conventional way of doing this in the UK? Most aluminium systems I've dealt with previously have their own sub-sill which deals with water drainage and you can therefore just sit it onto a level surface, perhaps with DPC as backup.

    I'm installing, effectively, into a timber frame in this instance.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJul 25th 2017
     
    FWIW, I've never come across them, but that probably doesn't say a lot. I'd have thought the manufacturer would provide instructions and suitable specifications or part numbers if such a part was necessary.
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeJul 25th 2017
     
    When I researched bi-folds some time ago one manufacturer required the bottom running gear alu. extrusion to be installed onto a metal hollow box section for stability. Not quite the same thing as you are suggesting, but from a sliding gear stability point of view in a timber frame house it may be something worth consideration depending of course on what your footings are. There are also some very good rot-proof structural plastics available.
    • CommentAuthorlineweight
    • CommentTimeJul 25th 2017
     
    yes there is the stability of the supporting structure to be considered. In my case I'm simply going for some quite beefy timbers. The width of the sliding door is not too great. Maybe I shoudl double check with the window suppliers about this.

    This kind of themally broken thing seems to be a "bog-standard" option for bifolds at least, and sort of would do what I'm looking for

    http://www.slideandfold.co.uk/external-cill-details-for-aluminium-smarts-duration-express-bi-fold-folding-bi-fold-plus-doors.html

    although I don't really see how drainage is dealt with. Also, whether the idea is that you fit end caps with a little upstand on them.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJul 25th 2017
     
    Another thought. Do you have the manufacturer's section drawing through the threshold of the door? If so, perhaps you could post it here? If not, the supplier should be able to supply it.
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeJul 25th 2017
     
    From what I've seen, drainage usually amount to holes drilled in the extrusions. In the case of wood bi-folds the bottom running channel often has holes again with an aluminium drain tube inserted into a hole drilled through the wood or composite cill, to the outside.
    • CommentAuthorlineweight
    • CommentTimeJul 25th 2017 edited
     
    Posted By: djhAnother thought. Do you have the manufacturer's section drawing through the threshold of the door? If so, perhaps you could post it here? If not, the supplier should be able to supply it.


    Sure, attached is the vertical section. Outside is on the left. It's a two pane door, one fixed one sliding. Section is through the sliding pane; on one half the external (left hand) track is occupied by the fixed panel.

    It doesn't look like water in the inner track can go sideways so must have to drain out the bottom.
      Screen Shot 2017-07-25 at 17.06.22.jpg
    • CommentAuthorlineweight
    • CommentTimeJul 25th 2017 edited
     
    (this is the same system discussed a little while ago in this thread -)

    http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=15092&page=1#Item_25
    • CommentAuthorMike1
    • CommentTimeJul 25th 2017 edited
     
    I've used 'sill pans' when installing windows of all types into timber dormers since the 1980s. In this situation they're basically an enhancement of a regular lead flashing, designed to ensure that any stray water is directed to the outside, rather than the inside (which I've seen happen). I get them custom made (pre-formed) from a lead fabricator.

    If I was to build a timber frame home, I'd no doubt do the same.
    • CommentAuthorlineweight
    • CommentTimeJul 25th 2017 edited
     
    Posted By: Mike1I've used 'sill pans' when installing windows of all types into timber dormers since the 1980s. In this situation they're basically an enhancement of a regular lead flashing, designed to ensure that any stray water is directed to the outside, rather than the inside (which I've seen happen). I get them custom made (pre-formed) from a lead fabricator.

    If I was to build a timber frame home, I'd no doubt do the same.


    Ok. Cheers. I have been thinking my best bet might be just to make one up out of lead sheet myself. Unless the window suppliers come back with any better suggestions.
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeJul 26th 2017
     
    Thin malleable aluminium sheet is also available as a lead alternative. I've used it in roofing applications.
    • CommentAuthorlineweight
    • CommentTimeJul 26th 2017 edited
     
    Posted By: owlmanThin malleable aluminium sheet is also available as a lead alternative. I've used it in roofing applications.


    Uncoated aluminium (if you accept what eg. Marley Eternit say) is not really supposed to be used anywhere there will be run-off from cement type materials, such as fibre cement slates, because it's prone to alkaline attack. I've had this argument with builders in the past, where they want to replace specified lead valley flashings with cheaper aluminium. To what extent it's a "real" problem I don't know.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJul 26th 2017
     
    If owlman is thinking of Lacomet, it isn't exactly uncoated.

    http://www.cdi-icm.co.uk/system/lacomet/
  1.  
    Posted By: djhIf owlman is thinking of Lacomet, it isn't exactly uncoated.>


    Lacomet isn't malleable like aluminium because it's two layers of aluminium sandwiching a mesh which means it will only bend in one direction and won't stretch.
    • CommentAuthorlineweight
    • CommentTimeJul 26th 2017
     
    By the way the window supplier sent me the drawing below, which clarifies things somewhat. Turns out the drainage is to the outer face (rather than the underside) after all. So, that simplifies the issue somewhat.
      Screen Shot 2017-07-26 at 17.32.05.jpg
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