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    • CommentAuthormarsaday
    • CommentTimeAug 8th 2017
     
    I am working out how to build a new outbuilding to replace my concrete garage.

    The building will be 9m in width and 4m in length. It will sit at the bottom of the garden and almost fill the full width of the garden. It will be a max 2.5m in height and will have a mono pitched roof in fibreglass.

    I intend on creating a shed section which will store all the tools, bikes, lawn mowers etc. This will take about 6m of the buildings width. The other section will be an office space of 3m x4m. Now i intend on insulating the office bit with 100mm kingpin between the wall / ceiling / floor joists.

    Do you think i should be insulating the shed section as well ? Or will this be wasted money.

    Also what do people think to my system of using concrete pads and blockwork to take the weight of the floor frame.

    I was thinking of digging a line of pads every 1m working across the site, so 10 lines in total. This would give me a grid of pads 10 x 5, so 50 pads in total. Each pad would be a little bigger than a breeze block and be 200mm deep. The breeze block would then be cemented laid out flattened would be positioned just above ground level. I would then screw the frame into the breeze blocks at several points. A DPM would be laid over each block. I would use treated joists as well.

    I have seen companies doing the same, but using metal rods which sit in the concrete. The new frame is bolted to these rods and i think they allow greater adjustment in terms of getting the floor frame level.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeAug 8th 2017
     
    I would make the pads paving slabs, 600x600 and min 150 below ground, dense concrete block say 140 x 215 x 440 on edge then wood.
    • CommentAuthormarsaday
    • CommentTimeAug 8th 2017
     
    If i go deeper into the ground i suppose stability will improve.

    What about the insulation of the shed area ?

    Apparently i will need building regs for a building over 30sqm.
    • CommentAuthorsnyggapa
    • CommentTimeAug 9th 2017
     
    could you not make it 2 buildings, one 6x4 and one 3x4.

    detached by an inch
  1.  
    Posted By: snyggapacould you not make it 2 buildings, one 6x4 and one 3x4.

    detached by an inch

    IMO detach by at least enough to pass between the two for the purposes of maintenance/cleaning
    • CommentAuthormarsaday
    • CommentTimeAug 9th 2017
     
    I don't want to make two buildings. I have the space to do this, but it would look odd.

    Apparently i may not need B regs if i can prove the shed bit is just that, a shed for storing stuff and working in. Not to be used as a habitable space.
  2.  
    Planning Portal says:

    If you want to put up small detached buildings such as a garden shed or summerhouse in your garden, building regulations will not normally apply if the floor area of the building is less than 15 square metres and contains NO sleeping accommodation.

    ''If the floor area of the building is between 15 square metres and 30 square metres, you will not normally be required to apply for building regulations approval providing that the building contains NO sleeping accommodation and is either at least one metre from any boundary or it is constructed of substantially non-combustible materials.

    This section provides you with general information to help you comply with the Building Regulations when constructing a new outbuilding within the boundaries of an existing property, such as:

    garage or carport
    summerhouse or shed
    greenhouse''

    ...implying that even a shed of over 30m2 requires Bldg Regs.

    You say: '' It will sit at the bottom of the garden and almost fill the full width of the garden''

    Is it closer than 1m to any boundary? (Or if not, will it be built of substantially non-combustible materials?)
    • CommentAuthormarsaday
    • CommentTimeAug 9th 2017
     
    The width is 10-11m to the hedges either side. So 9m would fit ok in the space.

    So if it is more than 1m away from the side boundaries and the rear one i should be ok because the whole construction is to be in timber.

    Will be boundary line be the mid point of the hedges then ? Because the hedges are pretty thick. Probably 90cm at least.
  3.  
    ''the rear one i should be ok because the whole construction is to be in timber.''

    .... and that's a 'substantially non-combustible material'?


    'Will be boundary line be the mid point of the hedges then ? Because the hedges are pretty thick. Probably 90cm at least.'

    Depends what your deeds say, but possibly yes. (Or possibly not yes!)
    • CommentAuthormarsaday
    • CommentTimeAug 9th 2017
     
    So basically the timber construction means i do need regs even id away from boundaries by 1m or more.
  4.  
    ''So basically the timber construction means i do need regs even id away from boundaries by 1m or more.''

    No.

    15-30m2 usually does *not* need B Regs if:

    (it) is *either* at least one metre from any boundary *or* it is constructed of substantially non-combustible materials.

    If it's a metre or more from the boundaries it can be built of timber. If it's closer than 1m it needs to be 'substantially non-combustible'.
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2017
     
    Posted By: Peter_in_Hungary
    IMO detach by at least enough to pass between the two for the purposes of maintenance/cleaning


    +++1
    • CommentAuthormarsaday
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2017
     
    Spoke to BC and i do need regs if i go over 30sqm. If i am under 1m from the boundary i need to treat the timbers with a fire varnish.

    Well i will be over 1m from the boundary line. Prob 1.5m minimum, so no fire issues to deal with.

    I now just need to see if i can live with a 30sqm build or do i go for the planned 9x4 = 36sqm.

    My office space needs to be 3m wide x 4m deep really, So leaving me with 18sqm for the shed / storage area is a bit tight. I would prefer to get 24 sqm in this area as currently have a 27sqm garage and the space is pretty chocker.
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2017
     
    How about a large covered verandah?
    If you designed the basic structure@ 30M2 for BC, then added the verandah afterwards when the dust settles. It may be debatable if that extra area was within or without the 30M2 limit, but you could maybe argue the toss. That covered canopy would give you useful storage.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2017
     
    Separate free standing bike store?
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2017
     
    I built my shed when you could still get cheap loft insulation. Packed the walls with it and it's nice and cool on a hot summers day.
    • CommentAuthormarsaday
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2017
     
    Well i want to stick to the size i need. BC is doing my extension and he said on the phone we can discuss it next time he comes to inspect the foundation section. It may just be a little extra on top of the fee i have paid already.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeAug 12th 2017
     
    If you are digging foundations perhaps a good time to put a trench in for the services to the outbuilding.
    • CommentAuthormarsaday
    • CommentTimeAug 12th 2017
     
    Did it 2 weeks ago. Electric feed in. Rainwater will go into a soaraway. Don't need any water in there.
      IMG_0508.jpg
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeAug 15th 2017
     
    That garden looks like it will be nice.
    • CommentAuthormarsaday
    • CommentTimeAug 15th 2017
     
    We have a lovely garden, but it is a mess at the moment and will be for the next year. Got 15 T earth behind me in this photo sat in the flower beds. Sectional garage to come out eventually and this hole will need filling in.

    We may have to cut down the magnolia in the middle of the photo, the new shed will come very close to it and i will need to open the new door into the shed and this tree will be in the way too much.
    • CommentAuthormarsaday
    • CommentTimeAug 25th 2017
     
    Spoke to BC yesterday and i can build whatever i like, but it won't comply with regs, so the room cannot be classed as a proper habitable room.

    My extension ideally wants to be 36sqm. It will be a shed and then an office next to it. I intend on building it all properly. So if i build something at 30sqm it will be exactly the same as at 36sqm, but would need regs.

    I am struggling to see the problem here because i don't need the regs to add any value to my construction. I just thought i would build an office room as a secondary thought because it may help with a house sale in years to come, or we may find it useful in the future. The extra work to insulate this office is marginal in terms of overall cost and expense.

    Going the regs route will also mean structural calcs the BC guy said. So really i am just going to build this and make it the size i want which is 36sqm. The BC guy said in reality no one is going to pick it up. I mean anyone can convert an attic space into a new room. It doesn't need to comply with regs, but the cost outlay is a lot and people go for regs so they can secure the uplift in value.

    My cost outlay is not going to change that much and a regulated building is not going to be worth more than an unregulated one in this case (i think).
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeAug 25th 2017
     
    Posted By: marsadaySpoke to BC yesterday and i can build whatever i like, but it won't comply with regs, so the room cannot be classed as a proper habitable room.

    I don't understand that. I thought that if an outbuilding was over 30 m² it was subject to building regs. Whether or not it is habitable is completely irrelevant. My garage at just under 40 m² was certainly subject to building regs, for example.

    http://www.lewes.gov.uk/planning/17206.asp appears to confirm my understanding.

    So I think you have misunderstood what BC said or they misunderstood what you asked. If you wish to buildwithout building regs, I suggest you get BC to confirm to you in writing that they do not apply to your project.
  5.  
    Yes, my feeling too. I think the guidance is pretty unequivocal. It could be that the BCO was expressing an informal opinion, possibly having taken his BCO hat off? (''The BC guy said in reality no one is going to pick it up.''). The outbuilding rules are not about whether it's a habitable room or not, I am pretty sure. It can be a storage shed, but if it is over 30m2 it needs Regs approval, AFAIK.
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeAug 26th 2017
     
    Doesn't it say somewhere that you can cover up to half your garden with sheds or greenhouses? I didn't think you needed BC for either. My knowledge is out of date admittedly. The boundary rules may be something else.
  6.  
    Owlman, yes:

    ''Outbuildings are considered to be permitted development, not needing planning permission, subject to the following limits and conditions:

    No outbuilding on land forward of a wall forming the principal elevation.
    Outbuildings and garages to be single storey with maximum eaves height of 2.5 metres and maximum overall height of four metres with a dual pitched roof or three metres for any other roof.
    Maximum height of 2.5 metres in the case of a building, enclosure or container within two metres of a boundary of the curtilage of the dwellinghouse.
    No verandas, balconies or raised platforms.
    **No more than half the area of land around the "original house"* would be covered by additions or other buildings.** (my emphasis).

    As regards Building Regs, I cannot find a statement on Planning Portal saying ''You may not build an outbuilding of over 30m2 without Building Regs'' but it clearly says that you may build one up to 30m2 *without*. The implication is clear.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeAug 26th 2017
     
    Posted By: owlmanDoesn't it say somewhere that you can cover up to half your garden with sheds or greenhouses?


    That's Permitted Development/Planning Permission rather than Building Regs.

    I didn't think you needed BC for either. My knowledge is out of date admittedly. The boundary rules may be something else.


    Building Regs kick in as follows..
    https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/43/outbuildings/2

    If you want to put up small detached buildings such as a garden shed or summerhouse in your garden, building regulations will not normally apply if the floor area of the building is less than 15 square metres and contains NO sleeping accommodation.

    If the floor area of the building is between 15 square metres and 30 square metres, you will not normally be required to apply for building regulations approval providing that the building contains NO sleeping accommodation and is either at least one metre from any boundary or it is constructed of substantially non-combustible materials.


    If over 30sqm then I believe BC Approval is required.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeAug 26th 2017
     
    http://www.thegardenroomguide.co.uk/building-regulations-for-garden-rooms/2012/08/18/

    You do need to apply for Building Regulations if:

    If you require a toilet, shower or basin to the mains sewer
    If it is self-contained or a living accommodation
    If the building is 30m2 or over

    So, if you are planning a office with toilet, a bedroom with shower room or a full blown granny annexe you will need to apply for Building Regulations. Large garden rooms of 30 sqm or more also need Building Regulation approval.


    The electrics will also involve building control but the electrician should do that for you.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeAug 26th 2017 edited
     
    I decided to quietly forget about Building Control Approval for my outbuilding that is just over 30sqm. Technically they can turn up and make you get Building Control Approval but there are time limits..

    https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200128/building_control/38/building_regulations/3

    "Prosecution is possible up to two years after the completion of the offending work."

    "A section 36 enforcement notice cannot be served on you after the expiration of 12 months from the date of completion of the building work."
  7.  
    Posted By: CWatters"Prosecution is possible up to two years after the completion of the offending work."

    "A section 36 enforcement notice cannot be served on you after the expiration of 12 months from the date of completion of the building work."


    If there are no planning or BC applications who determines "the date of completion of the building work".
   
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