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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
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  1.  
    hi
  2.  
    Hi everyone, I've been following the forum for a while, and would like to thank you for all the very useful information you are sharing.
    It's very comforting to see others' experiencing similar challenges.
    I'm considering development of a beautiful piece of rural land with several villas to be used mainly as vacations homes.
    I am thinking about a business opportunity in a green building project, which will be innovative and distinctive, as I strongly believe this constitutes a good investment (at the same time comfortable and healthy).

    I've read a lot about the technical issues of the project, and though I have experience in some aspects of it, I would like to hear from others about how to market such properties to potential buyers".
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeSep 18th 2017
     
    Can you identify potential buyers (as one or more classes)? If so then you can think about what those types of people are looking for and where they might be looking.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeSep 18th 2017 edited
     
    I think the first thing you need to do is decide on what you mean by 'Green Building'.
    Then post up your ideas and let other knock them down.
    This may seem harsh, but it will clarify your position no end.

    Then decide if you can find clients.

    Failing that, market it as an educational centre. Have a look at what CAT is doing.
    http://www.cat.org.uk/index.html
  3.  
    Sadly, I think the market for high quality green buildings is very small. Or to put it another way, mainstream buyers won't pay more for them.

    We self built and our house missed a lot of the targets I sent myself so I'm not sure how 'green' it would be labelled by many on this forum, but it is still better than the average housing stock. However, when we had it valued the agents were interested in:
    1. How big it was
    2. How nice it looked
    3. The schools it was close to

    At no time was I asked what our SAP rating was, whether we had 3G windows, what the annual running costs were, how much we earn each year in FITs, if we had MVHR, rainwater harvesting etc...

    Very sadly, I just don't think it is of much interest to mainstream buyers.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeSep 18th 2017
     
    We once sold a house with PV on the roof that I think was paying over £1000 a year in FIT. Nobody ever asked us about it. Not even the estate agent.

    It was let for awhile and we explained to the tenant how it worked and about the free electricity they would get. They didn't seem to care and failed to notice for three months that a storm had tripped the circuit breaker and they weren't getting free electricity any more.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeSep 18th 2017
     
    A buyer of a holiday home is most likely to be interested in things like security, maintenance, wifi & BBQ.

    If they plan to rent it out they might be interested in a hot tub - we've noticed that more and more holiday lets have one. In France a shared pool might be of interest but I think that might not be the case in the UK.

    Landscaping for privacy will also be important. People like to relax and sunbathe on holiday and don't want to be disturbed by noisy neighbours. Think individual south facing walled gardens rather than large open plan/communal areas.

    Proximity to good places to eat will help.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeSep 18th 2017
     
    Pretty sure zgreentouch is not in the UK, somewhere in eastern europe I think
    • CommentAuthorJeff B
    • CommentTimeSep 18th 2017
     
    Sadly I think Richardelliot is spot on. I would go even further and say that all the "green credentials" like solar PV, solar thermal, biomass boiler, 3G windows, MHVR, rainwater harvesting etc. are probably off-putting factors (i.e. additional maintenance and/or complexity) when most people are just looking for C/H and a gas fired combi boiler. Maybe in years to come when we've run out of fossil fuels things might be different!
    • CommentAuthorgyrogear
    • CommentTimeSep 19th 2017 edited
     
    I've stopped telling my neighbour about my green initiatives, 35-yr bank carreer, he just does not understand and worse than that, he can't see why I am bothering.

    He installed super dooper soft-heat radiators that cost a fortune, but has real krappy windows from 1980, and his electric bill is over twice mine, but who cares...

    gg

    :sad:
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeSep 19th 2017
     
    Posted By: gyrogearsuper dooper soft-heat radiators that cost a fortune
    Had to look these up.
    So they are oil filled radiators.
    http://www.lviprodukter.com/inspiration/softheat.htm
    • CommentAuthorMarkyP
    • CommentTimeSep 19th 2017
     
    frustrating, isn't it?

    education is the key. I'm only half joking when I say there should be a mandatory GSCE on the subject of homes. They are one of the most important aspects of our lives and yet so poorly understood by the majority. It would cover building and construction methods, materials, utilities, green measures, archtiecture, home management, planning, gardening and ofcourse basic DIY!
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeSep 19th 2017
     
    I suggested a simple, 2 hour course about home energy usage.
    Got no takers.
    The latest people I spoke to spend thousands sending people out to make sure that people they know of in fuel poverty are on the best rate from the main suppliers.
    I did not even get a call back.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeSep 19th 2017
     
    Posted By: MarkyPfrustrating, isn't it?

    education is the key. I'm only half joking when I say there should be a mandatory GSCE on the subject of homes. They are one of the most important aspects of our lives and yet so poorly understood by the majority. It would cover building and construction methods, materials, utilities, green measures, archtiecture, home management, planning, gardening and ofcourse basic DIY!


    To which I would add a section on finance (mortgages, savings, investments, pensions, interest, debt, and tax).
    • CommentAuthorgyrogear
    • CommentTimeSep 19th 2017
     
    Posted By: CWattersTo which I would add a section on finance (mortgages, savings, investments, pensions, interest, debt, and tax).


    +1

    not to mention the benefits of GROWING TOMATO-LIKE SUBSTANCES in one's conditioned crawlspace....

    gg :devil:
    • CommentAuthorgyrogear
    • CommentTimeSep 19th 2017
     
    Had to look these up.
    So they are oil filled radiators.
    http://www.lviprodukter.com/inspiration/softheat.htm


    er, nope, actually, they are made of stone, and very thin...
    Suspect they Are ITALIAN...

    A BIT LIKE THIS...
    http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=15299&page=1#Comment_261381

    (sorry for caps - working on a mac...)

    gg
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeSep 19th 2017
     
    Posted By: CWatters
    Posted By: MarkyPfrustrating, isn't it?

    education is the key. I'm only half joking when I say there should be a mandatory GSCE on the subject of homes. They are one of the most important aspects of our lives and yet so poorly understood by the majority. It would cover building and construction methods, materials, utilities, green measures, archtiecture, home management, planning, gardening and ofcourse basic DIY!


    To which I would add a section on finance (mortgages, savings, investments, pensions, interest, debt, and tax).

    That should be a separate, also mandatory, GCSE, IMHO.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeSep 19th 2017 edited
     
    Posted By: gyrogearA BIT LIKE THIS...
    http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=15299&page=1#Comment_261381
    That just pointed me back to this page.
    So are they storage heaters?



    Posted By: gyrogear(sorry for caps - working on a mac...)
    Grown up computers allow you to type in lower case, and joined up ,real writing :bigsmile:
  4.  
    To me this is a lived thing.

    People only seem to notice 2k energy bills when they have been <1k for some time, and vice versa.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeSep 19th 2017
     
    I did an audit on a house as it was costing them £40/week on their electric key meter.
    This was a place that had gas for DHW and space heating.
    So after 3 week I read the meter, found they had used under £20.
    With a bit of gentle questioning I found out that they only remembered when they had to actually pay something.
    And their unit rate was no worse than mine.

    So I have concluded that there is a lot of selective memory when it comes to energy prices and paying out for things.
    Funny though that 'isn't Christmas expensive this year' is forgotten by January.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeSep 19th 2017
     
    Posted By: SteamyTeaI suggested a simple, 2 hour course about home energy usage
    Who to? to some institution or body? so the people in charge of it are ignorant, as per average.

    I have a pet idea - a Green Building 'cafe', where you just open the door and see who comes, of an evening - no agenda or teaching prepared, talk as peers (some more equal than others) about whatever's of interest. Of course, widespread publicity beforehand, and hang in there month by month till it slowly grows. Should work in Plymouth, Totnes or Exeter, even Penwith I wouldn't be surprised.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeSep 19th 2017
     
    Posted By: fostertomeven Penwith I wouldn't be surprised
    You not noticed the number of cafes that have closed down in just PZ then.
    I have thought along similar lines though. A large chart of the UKs electrical demands has to be better than bad paintings of St. Ives on the wall.
    • CommentAuthorgyrogear
    • CommentTimeSep 19th 2017
     
    Posted By: SteamyTeaSo are they storage heaters?


    Apologies, ST, here is the proper link...

    http://www.mon-chauffage-electrique.com/radiateur-inertie-pierre_cosy-art_pierre-naturelle.htm

    I guess they *DO* store heat, but they also recover (somehow...) the heat that they emit ???

    gg
    • CommentAuthorDarylP
    • CommentTimeSep 20th 2017
     
    ... you mean
    "Soft Heat Radiant
    heat on a large surface and a recovery of the rear energies reinjected into the room will bring you the comfort of soft heat."
    No way can you beat physics.... they are just radiant heaters with a little 'lag' built in by virtue of thermal mass?:shocked:
    • CommentAuthorgravelld
    • CommentTimeSep 20th 2017 edited
     
    Expecting change like this to come from a drop in cafe or yet more demand on teacher time with what will be discredited throw-away, over specific education will not help anything.

    What is needed for a problem like this is structural change, and that is best coming from a benevolent dictator model - either government, or well intentioned individuals (possibly organisations, but almost definitely not those following the traditional PLC corporatist model) - George Peabody anybody?

    PLCs might step in once the problems are so bad that there is money in it for them. But by then we will probably be defeated anyway.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeSep 20th 2017
     
    Just what the PZ cafe trade needs then! A favourite in Pendeen gone too - but the brilliant Pendeen Centre operation just opposite - along with St Just, alternative/startahome fertile ground for a GBcafe.

    Posted By: gravelldwhat will be discredited throw-away
    Not to those who choose to turn up. Yes it's preaching to the converted, plus those wavering who have an opportunity put in front of them. Interest gets consolidated. Waves mysteriously spread out.
    Revolutions need both ends of the spectrum - both incremental grassroots growth, and govt/policy transformation. Neither stands a chance without the other, of large-scale change.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeSep 20th 2017
     
    Then you have this sort of thing to deal with. A great way to alienate customers if you try to defend a climate model.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/infact/climate-change-sceptics-scientists-admit-wrong-global-warming-carbon-budget-nature-a7955991.html
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeSep 20th 2017
     
    But if you read that one properly:
    "And that, in sharp contrast to the sceptics, is the take-home message: start cutting greenhouse gases and a temperature increase that could lead to dangerous climate change can be avoided."
    No real change then, just a bit more possibility of success.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeSep 20th 2017 edited
     
    Was just pointing out the hysteria about climate change/energy and how hard it would be to have to counteract information that is published in the press.

    I may have mentioned this the other day, but was speaking to a neuroscientists who was proud to tell me that they used statistics to show that they only had a 1 in 20 chance they were wrong.
    I pointed out that in Physics, sigma 5 is used, which is 1 in 3.5 million chance that they are wrong.

    So if there was a sigma 2, or a sigma 5 chance that being in a car with an unknown driver would get you to your journeys end, which would you consider the safest.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeSep 20th 2017 edited
     
   
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