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    • CommentAuthorgravelld
    • CommentTimeOct 31st 2017 edited
     
    Trying to put together a budget, so it'd be good to catch up with current EWI and joinery costs (because these things appear to consume about 80% of the budget).

    EWI I have £100 per m2 before VAT (at 5%)
    Joinery I have £600 per m2 before VAT (at 20%)

    EWI here is sticky block, rendered, aiming for about 180-200mm.

    Joinery is alu-clad sub U=1.

    Anyone want to venture some numbers?
  1.  
    The £100/m2 will get you 90 or 100mm Graphite EPS from some firms. Most use it as a ball park figure. Some don't go that low. Don't expect bells and whistles at that price - it'll be a very 'ordinary' job. (Yes, I *know* it ought to be cheaper!)

    When I first read your post I wondered what sort of 'joinery' was going to cost £600/m2 - gold-plated floorboards? Then I realised you mean windows and doors. Ah!
    • CommentAuthorgravelld
    • CommentTimeNov 1st 2017
     
    Thanks Nick. Added target thickness for the EWI. Dropped into a local firm that has started to do EWI. In their system they have to double up boards for 180mm (is this normal)? They said about £90/m2.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeNov 1st 2017
     
    They should be able to buy 200mm thick sheets but not many stock them.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeNov 1st 2017
     
    Single @ 200 is a lot less work than double anything, provided they have industrial-quality hot-wire table-mounted cutter that will cope with graphite EPS (which sucks lots more heat out of the wire than white EPS). If cutting by hand saw or other crudity, then yes prob 2 thinner boards easier.
    • CommentAuthorgoodevans
    • CommentTimeNov 1st 2017 edited
     
    MarkyP may be able too give some solid actual cost numbers here - at least for materials. Here's hoping he can be generous and share. And he's cutting with a hand held cutter (but with 100mm graphite ewi).
    • CommentAuthorMarkyP
    • CommentTimeNov 1st 2017
     
    I did rough calc last night and came up with £70 per square meter inc VAT. If it's accurate I'm pretty happy with that but I will need to double check in detail. Once I have done so I will give a breakdown of the per meter cost of components and labour. Remember this has involved a lot of DIY. However it's also meant I've been able to take tight control of some details that I think I'd have struggled to get with a supply and fit system (Nick's bells and whistles). I had system quotes all over £100 per meter, none would have used recessed fixings, none would have used a thermally acceptable PVC starter (alu is the norm),one said they foamed joints as standard, others wanted extra and said it wasnt necessary, none used frame seal beads, one was prepared but wanted extra. Most quoted for the cheaper acrylic render and wanted extra for a silicate/silicone thincoat.
    • CommentAuthorMarkyP
    • CommentTimeNov 1st 2017
     
    on the joinery costs question, I never did wok out what Russell charged per meter but I recall FT has given a per meter price for their windows in the past, and recall it being a lot less than £600m2
  2.  
    Ah, gravelld, do you mean supply only? In which case ignore my assertion that £100/m2 will get you 90-100mm. On the other hand, if you are talking 5% VAT, you must mean installed. If a firm is offering you 180 graphite EPS, fully finished, even if that's not incl scaffolding, for £90/m2 I'd bite their hand off (after checking that the quality of the hand is worth biting :) )
  3.  
    Also, having done 100mm on a very wonky wall, I am decided that if I ever do 200, it will be in 2 layers of 100.
    • CommentAuthorgravelld
    • CommentTimeNov 1st 2017
     
    Thanks for these numbers, any more gratefully received. It's sounding like my EWI estimate is a little light. The £90/m2 was rather "off the top of his head". Also it doesn't include scaffolding.

    @Nick - I did mean installed.

    The joinery quotes seems to vary a lot more, like you say Markyp you often hear about good deals from RT and Munster (although latter impossible to deal with if you aren't trade AIUI).

    At the moment, external joinery is 55% of the total works, EWI 28%, so it's maybe glazing I need to "value engineer" (or maybe the estimate is too high).
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeNov 1st 2017
     
    Posted By: MarkyPon the joinery costs question, I never did wok out what Russell charged per meter but I recall FT has given a per meter price for their windows in the past, and recall it being a lot less than £600m2
    £325/m2 last time I got a quote, mixed doors and windows - but that's supply only, and it's the non-Al faced 4-12-4-12-4 Uw1.1 range.
  4.  
    Is EWI easy to fix on with a foam gun? Or not the preferred method?
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeNov 1st 2017
     
    Very easy, best to do some mechanical fixings the next day ideally holding a rendermesh
    • CommentAuthorgoodevans
    • CommentTimeNov 1st 2017 edited
     
    Tony, Presumably fixing render mesh with fixings is only good for flush fixings - the recessed ones with the "rondelle" that MarkyP has used means the mesh must be applied with the render base coat.
  5.  
    How much of a detriment would it be to get the boards in and render say a year later?
    • CommentAuthormark_s
    • CommentTimeNov 2nd 2017 edited
     
    You'd need to rub down the boards before rendering - the surface deteriorates quite badly and some birds seem to enjoy pecking holes in it.

    I'd at least try to get a base coat on.
    • CommentAuthorgravelld
    • CommentTimeNov 2nd 2017
     
    Posted By: VictorianecoHow much of a detriment would it be to get the boards in and render say a year later?
    AIUI (and this might vary from system to sytem) the base coats are polymer based and are water tight. If you can get that on, at least, no issue with then finishing the next year, say. These base coats, again AIUI, are more tolerant of installation conditions.
    • CommentAuthorMarkyP
    • CommentTimeNov 2nd 2017
     
    anyone actually tried using PU foam adhesive? The basecoat adhesive takes time but it's easy to set the boards flat, you can push and pull them about and it stays live for a good while. I wondered if this would be so easy with foam? without doubt it would be the much faster method, mixing the adhesive and aplpying it to the boards is time consuming, an all round quirt with the foam gun, plus a dollop in the middle would take seconds. Maybe I should try some, I've still got three elevations to go.

    agree about getting basecoat on. my discussion with renderer and supplier concluded that we'll go ahead so long as overnight temp looks like holding above 5c for a couple of days while it sets. We'll sheet it up if any risk of overnight rain.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeNov 2nd 2017
     
    Posted By: mark_sYou'd need to rub down the boards before rendering - the surface deteriorates quite badly and some birds seem to enjoy pecking holes in it.

    I'd at least try to get a base coat on.

    I agree with that but also note that if you left the base coat for a year it would also need a thorough cleaning before applying any subsequent coat. I don't know what proprietary systems would need but I expect lime would need a power wash perhaps followed by an acid wash to remove sintering, or maybe sanding.
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