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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
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    • CommentAuthorgravelld
    • CommentTimeMay 1st 2019
     
    Is the "EcoDesign ready" room sealed?

    I worry that these standards only consider the contribution of the stove when it is running.
  1.  
    Posted By: gravelldIs the "EcoDesign ready" room sealed?

    I worry that these standards only consider the contribution of the stove when it is running.


    Hi, yes, being room sealed is part of the standard:

    "The most dramatic effect of the legislation will be its impact on traditional open gas fires and stoves. In future, all gas and wood heating appliances must be constructed with glass fronts and be room-sealed for safety, comfort and efficiency."

    https://www.drufire.com/en-gb/about-dru/dru-for-architects/recent-developments/compliance-and-regulations/new-european-regulations-regarding-gas-fires-and-wood-stoves
    • CommentAuthorgravelld
    • CommentTimeMay 2nd 2019
     
    Nice.
  2.  
    I’ve moved a little further forward with the fireplace. I installed LED uplights into holes drilled Into the stone hearth and I finished both sides of the arch structure. The stove fitter came out and told me how close I could get the frame to the new twin wall flue pipe to meet building regs. I then fitted dense rock wool slabs insulation (100mm thick) between the frame structure and back filled behind that with a lot of bits and bobs of insulation I had left over from other jobs. I’ve stopped now until the fitters come to install the stove on Friday.
      AD8DB7DF-5B52-4BD1-8D32-7F5B3B381E6C.jpeg
      2A6A7529-C154-441A-A2FD-4E49AEDB4512.jpeg
      25DA0B6A-8537-4B67-BCC4-312AF47BB3E4.jpeg
  3.  
    By the way, if anyone wants the stove - A Coalbrookdale derby with back boiler and hot plate (under a decorative hinged top plate), let me know ASAP. Note, the back boiler has a hairline crack and needs welding if you’re going to use it, otherwise it can just be used as a dry multi fuel stove. Free to good home,

    ‘Buyer’ to collect, we are close to the West Yorkshire border.
  4.  
    The new woodburner has been fitted (the old one was smashed up to get it out of the house and will be taken in bits to the recycle center) and now I can finish off the rest of the work. I mentioned insulating above the stove register plate and the woodburner fitter expressed concern about putting even rockwool near the flue. I did some research online and couldn't find anything definitive from what I'd say was an expert source - a lot of guess work on forums, which I didn't feel comfortable following with such a serious issue as fire risks. I didn't want to just leave the area above the register plate uninsulated, but I also didn't want to fill it with materials that could either pose a fire risk or off-gassing risk when they get hot, especially in the event of a flue fire. In the end I decided that I'd cover the flue with a purpose built flue wrap (VITCAS Flue Wrap - rated upto 550°C /1020°F ) and then filling around that with rockwool.

    We have a twinwall flue pipe that starts just above the stove and ends well above the register plate. There is a gap at the top where the twin wall ends and the single flue goes up the chimney. I'll wrap this first until its circumference matches the twinwall, and then I'll wrap them both together as much as possible until I cant get it between the wall and the flue pipe. That should be more than sufficient to make sure that the rockwool behind it is protected from the very high temperatures of a flue fire.

    The attached pics show the twinwall flue (black pipe) and single wall flue that I'll be wrapping, and the foil coated high temperature wrap itself. It also shows the end of an old copper water pipe from when we had a boiler stove in there, plus some high temperature foam that was sprayed in to prevent leca that was poured into the chimney void falling through the gaps.
      flue.jpg
      fluewrap.jpg
  5.  
    I managed to get a layer around the single skin pipe and then another around all of the flue. I've now lit a fire in the stove and once it's been going a few hours I'll touch the insulation to see how well it's doing. If it's uncomfortable to touch I'll add another layer and see if that'll do the job (though I can't get any more between the wall and the pipe so the next layer will go two thirds around the pipe's circumference). Once the insulation feels just warm to the touch, I think that'll be fine to then add the rockwool.

    The attached pic shows the flue wrapped in the high temp insulation from the register plate up to where it goes into the chimney liner in the ceiling.
      fluewrap2.jpg
  6.  
    So the stove has been on a couple of hours and the twin wall pipe below the register plate is too hot to hold your hand against for more than a few seconds. The twin wall above the register plate that has a single insulation wrap around it is quite warm to the touch and the single wall pipe with two wraps of insulation is lukewarm. I was really surprised at that as I thought it'd be much hotter than the twin wall and insulation. I decided to add one more layer of flue wrap, pushing the ends in-between the flue pipe and the wall to hold it. I also had an off cut that I wrapped around the bottom of the pipe where it meets the register plate. This is where I’ll put the bulk of the Rockwool insulation so it’s definitely not going to get hot from the flue with 3 layers of flue wrap between it and the twin wall pipe.

    This means I'm happy to install the rockwool insulation into the void. Happy is probably the wrong word as it's nasty, itchy stuff but it does the job and it'll be sealed up in there behind woodwool boards and lime plaster.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJun 7th 2019
     
    Posted By: Pile-o-StoneHappy is probably the wrong word as it's nasty, itchy stuff

    Gloves and a disposable boiler suit were what I used for similar stuff. Oh and a hat.
  7.  
    Not too much to report on the current project as I've been away on holiday and working outside trying to develop the garden a bit (a small orchard is being planted). I did chip out all of the awful cement pointing in the wall behind the stove and repointed with lime mortar. I'm not much of a brickie but I'm really pleased with my efforts and the result. I've attached a before and after pic showing the difference. I also took the time to replace some broken stones (they were pointed in with cement and looked awful - more cement than stone). It's a feature fireplace so I think it's worth the extra effort.

    My next step is to duct air from the wall vent that the stove installers put in, to the direct air vent at the back of the stove. I'm just looking for a 70mm diameter pipe that is 5m long, so any suggestions greatly appreciated.
      wall1.jpg
    • CommentAuthormarktime
    • CommentTimeJul 4th 2019
     
    Really enjoying your journey. Please continue.
    • CommentAuthorCharli
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2019
     
    The after-pointing does look significantly better, well done!
  8.  
    Thanks guys :)

    Lime is fantastic to work with. It doesn't set too fast so amateurs like me can take their time when doing the job and then when it's gone off for a bit, any excess is easy to scrape and brush off the stones.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeJul 6th 2019
     
    Yes, it doesn't stain the stones, unlike cement, so is very forgiving.
    • CommentAuthorMackers
    • CommentTimeJul 14th 2019
     
    Very nice!
  9.  
    I managed to find a 70mm pipe. It's a flexible silicon hose with an operating temperature range of -70C to +300C, so it should be good enough for venting the stove. I lifted a row of stones at the back of the hearth and dug a channel in the concrete slab underneath. I laid the hose in this channel and then back filled with fine gravel. The hearth stones will be relaid on top and pointed up.

    The photos show the pipe coming into the inglenook side wall, down into the channel I cut and then into the back of the fire. I pushed the hose into the back of the fire so that gravel wouldn't get into it. I'm just waiting for a reducer to arrive that will allow me to connect the 70mm pipe to the 100mm stove vent outlet.

    I was originally looking for a 70mm flexible aluminium hose to go into the back of the stove but I couldn't find one. I saw the silicon hose and the max 300C and thought it might be ok. Before I bought the hose, I put the stove on all day and touched the vent connector at the back of the stove. It wasn't too hot to hold my hand against it, so I'm sure the silicon pipe will be fine, plus the reducer will bring the pipe further away from the fire.

    Once this is done, I can finish off filling the archway with insulation and cover it with the wood wool boards then get my friendly neighbourhood lime plasterer to finish it off.
      vent1.jpg
  10.  
    I completed the air vent to the back of the fire and so that allowed me to finish off filling the inside of the arches with rockwool and then cover them with woodwool board. The attached photo shows the stone archway with the interior arch currently covered with the woodwool boards. The inside of the fireplace is lit with orange LED floor lights (I may revert back to the white LEDS, I'm still not sure about the effect with orange).

    I'm now saving up funds to pay for the interior to be lime plastered and painted white (including white paint on the register plate).
      fireplace2.jpg
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeSep 3rd 2019
     
    Looks good. I think we'd need a wider view of the room to judge aesthetics better.

    Are the spreaders on the screws holding the woodwool boards the plastic ones or metal? You can guess why I'm asking?
  11.  
    Posted By: djhLooks good. I think we'd need a wider view of the room to judge aesthetics better.

    Are the spreaders on the screws holding the woodwool boards the plastic ones or metal? You can guess why I'm asking?


    Thanks. I'll do one from further away once it's plastered.

    They're plastic, but they will be covered by lime plaster.
  12.  
    The lighting effect would work better if they were turned down a lot. At the moment they dominate the opening and the fire whereas if they were a (feint) background the effect would be better. - Just IMO

    Re the plastic spreaders holding the woodwool boards - If the temperature within the opening gets hot enough to soften the plastic at that distance from the stove then soft plastic will be the least of the problems
  13.  
    Posted By: Peter_in_HungaryThe lighting effect would work better if they were turned down a lot. At the moment they dominate the opening and the fire whereas if they were a (feint) background the effect would be better. - Just IMO


    That’s the reason I tried changing to the orange lights as the white ones were way too bright. Both the white and orange lights are 3w leds. Maybe I should look at some 1 or 2 watts?

    Posted By: Peter_in_HungaryRe the plastic spreaders holding the woodwool boards - If the temperature within the opening gets hot enough to soften the plastic at that distance from the stove then soft plastic will be the least of the problems


    That was my view, especially when they’re under at least 10cm of lime plaster.
  14.  
    Posted By: Pile-o-StoneThat’s the reason I tried changing to the orange lights as the white ones were way too bright. Both the white and orange lights are 3w leds. Maybe I should look at some 1 or 2 watts?

    Or use dimmable leds and adjust as per your mood or whether the stove is lit or out.


    Posted By: Pile-o-StoneThat was my view, especially when they’re under at least 10cm of lime plaster.

    10cm? that seems a bit thick
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