Fri, 01 May 2026 06:15:29 +0100 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1541&Focus=17991#Comment_17991 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1541&Focus=17991#Comment_17991 Sat, 05 Apr 2008 22:28:27 +0100 Katymac & how much will they charge?

The Nursery is not going well

The tenders came in at £420K......I have £180 to spend

So once we have taken out the silly stuff (like oak skirting boards and block internal walls) I managed to get it down to £255

If I lose the VAT on that I'm down to £215

So major economies needed plus I guess builders that don't charge VAT....small ones - so I think I will need a project manager

Am I right?]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1541&Focus=17993#Comment_17993 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1541&Focus=17993#Comment_17993 Sat, 05 Apr 2008 23:47:55 +0100 Spike
You won't save the VAT by finding a non-VAT registered builder. The current threshold for VAT registration is £67,000 turnover p.a. and your scheme far exceeds this. You could save VAT by knocking down your existing building and starting again as this would qualify as a new building - not very green but, hey, VAT rules are not designed to be green. Alternatively, if your nursery business is VAT registered, you should be able to claim your VAT back.

A couple of words of cation: how have you achieved the reduction from £420K to £255K - in consultation with the builder or unilaterally? It is rarely the case that you can straight cut things out without some compensatory factors elsewhere - e.g. the builder may expect to recover a certain value of overheads from the job and demand a higher percentage from a lower value of work. Secondly, all builders price differently, so if you are valuing your reductions based on the tender from one builder, do not expect that this is the value of saving you would make if you employed another builder - the next builder will have to price everything on his own terms.

To answer your question (at last) it depends what you mean by 'project manager'. He may be a principal consultant who manages your design team (architect, surveyor, specialist engineers as appropriate) and builder on your behalf. Or he may be a hands-on site manager who directly organises sub-contractors, direct labour and materials procurement - i.e. acting as a builder, rather than a consultant. Usually, on a project of that the size you describe, you'll be referring to the builder type project manager, not the consultant. In such case, I would expect you could find such a fellow for around £1000-1250 per week and he'll be there full time on site. The consultant type may charge between 2and 4% of the project value, depending upon his brief and the value of the project (lower value project, higher percentage).

If you would like to talk this through, I'm happy to oblige if you could provide a contact e-mail?]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1541&Focus=18010#Comment_18010 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1541&Focus=18010#Comment_18010 Sun, 06 Apr 2008 10:39:23 +0100 CWatters https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1541&Focus=18015#Comment_18015 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1541&Focus=18015#Comment_18015 Sun, 06 Apr 2008 11:43:39 +0100 jon https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1541&Focus=18016#Comment_18016 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1541&Focus=18016#Comment_18016 Sun, 06 Apr 2008 12:07:48 +0100 Katymac
Children

That's the easy ones answered

Spike
The price came down with the builders, they looked at the architects specification and have cut out the stuff that is lovely but costs silly money.

They don't think they can cut it down any further & still mean it's worth them doing it

I envisaged the project manager finding smaller builders and breaking in down into small chunks for the smaller (non VAT registered) builders/plumbers/electricians/carpenters to do

I'm really not sure what else a project manager would do - make sure that the site is safe? Make sure the individual jobs were done well?

My email is katymacb@hotmail.co.uk - as you can see I am on a very steep learning curve

The barn cannot be knocked down because planning will not allow us to rebuild on the site - we can convert an existing structure but not replace it.

VAT is a problem - the nursery will be exempt so cannot reclaim any VAT. If the builders could do it without the VAT I can afford it - but with the VAT I cannot borrow enough money

Thanks for the advise so far - it is a tricky situation]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1541&Focus=18018#Comment_18018 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1541&Focus=18018#Comment_18018 Sun, 06 Apr 2008 12:30:59 +0100 Mike George
A further way around the VAT is to open an account in a Builders Merchant yourself, employing the PM to oversee day to day materialsrequirements. This will reduce the contract sum to PM and or subbies again reducing VAT

Hope this helps

Mike]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1541&Focus=18020#Comment_18020 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1541&Focus=18020#Comment_18020 Sun, 06 Apr 2008 13:10:51 +0100 jon
To get this off the ground, you may need to find someone that can act as a design & project manager and shell out the work packages as individual contracts. To find a PM that knows how to do this economically and that has the contacts to make it happen will be a task and a half. You are in an area of the country that has economic strange rules (some of the items you will require can be more economically sourced in London than where you are whereas most are cheaper).

At this point, if I were you, I would stop and find a friendly builder or QS: One who is a friend: Then ask them to look at the whole project to see where dramatic changes could be made. It may also be useful to Involve an engineer in this process. At the end of the process you may have to ask whether or not you have the right site. If you do not have the right site, then it may be worth considering cutting your losses.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1541&Focus=18022#Comment_18022 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1541&Focus=18022#Comment_18022 Sun, 06 Apr 2008 15:28:36 +0100 Katymac
If I don't do it here I won't be able to - it is something that has been addressed (rather a lot)

So finding a builder/project manager is the way to go

Goodness me - another chalenge]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1541&Focus=18138#Comment_18138 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1541&Focus=18138#Comment_18138 Tue, 08 Apr 2008 08:15:43 +0100 richy https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1541&Focus=54027#Comment_54027 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1541&Focus=54027#Comment_54027 Tue, 12 May 2009 17:36:37 +0100 PaulD
We have just launched an online project planning and collaboration tool aimed at smaller building projects. I'll be happy to give you a free project for say six months in return for some feedback provided you are prepared to use the system and are reasonably computer literate (I guess you are why she would be using the forum).
you can find out more here.
http://completepicture.co.uk/index.php/Project-Extranet/construction-project-extranet.html

if you decide to go ahead use the registration form and mention this post in the details when you register.

regards
Paul]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1541&Focus=88925#Comment_88925 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1541&Focus=88925#Comment_88925 Fri, 10 Sep 2010 23:31:29 +0100 jfe-rendersystems https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1541&Focus=88980#Comment_88980 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1541&Focus=88980#Comment_88980 Sun, 12 Sep 2010 00:49:36 +0100 Gavin_A Posted By: KatymacThe tenders came in at £420K......I have £180 to spend
£180k I presume...

I can't see how anyone could knock that much of a redevelopment without redesigning it, so I'd expect the architect should be the first port of call with a brief to deliver a redevelopment that can be done for less than £170k including his fee (then you've got 10k as a (still rather low) contingency budget)

If the architect knew your budget, then I'd think he actually ought to do the redesign for free being as they've obviously not delivered a realistic plan, unless you'd also been insistent on having loads of costly features, or you're actually asking the impossible

I'd think that a really experienced and good project manager could save you money by taking the architects plans and using their experience to work them up in the most cost effective way, using experience from other sites to suggest alternative cheaper methods to the ones originally planned, plus managing the schedule of work and deliveries on site so that each job proceeded in order, with no trades waiting on other trades / kit to actually get on with their work / having to undo other people's stuff to get at their stuff, plus using their contacts to get you a good team of workers.

whether they'd actually save enough money to cover their costs is another question, and one that really depends on how good you'd be at project managing yourself / how good the builder / trades were at self organising their work, not ripping you off etc.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1541&Focus=88992#Comment_88992 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1541&Focus=88992#Comment_88992 Sun, 12 Sep 2010 10:08:56 +0100 CWatters https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1541&Focus=89194#Comment_89194 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1541&Focus=89194#Comment_89194 Tue, 14 Sep 2010 09:13:15 +0100 Gavin_A https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1541&Focus=165321#Comment_165321 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1541&Focus=165321#Comment_165321 Sat, 19 Jan 2013 15:36:53 +0000 Don_Munro https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1541&Focus=165593#Comment_165593 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1541&Focus=165593#Comment_165593 Wed, 23 Jan 2013 18:06:12 +0000 ecohome https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1541&Focus=165757#Comment_165757 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1541&Focus=165757#Comment_165757 Fri, 25 Jan 2013 14:35:36 +0000 nikhoward https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1541&Focus=165875#Comment_165875 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1541&Focus=165875#Comment_165875 Sat, 26 Jan 2013 20:07:41 +0000 Gotanewlife https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1541&Focus=165931#Comment_165931 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1541&Focus=165931#Comment_165931 Sun, 27 Jan 2013 12:57:52 +0000 Don_Munro