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  1.  
    I know that normally doors are located at the edge of the lining, but our walls are quite thick, and we need fire doors, meaning that the weight of the door will be hanging on the edge of the lining. I was wondering if there was a way to position the door (yellow) in the centre of the lining (orange) so that the hinges can be screwed into the timber frame (green). It would also seem better in the event of a fire. See attached.

    Could anybody with more experience please advise?
      20171128 Door Jamb.png
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeNov 28th 2017
     
    The lining and stop are usually supplied separately, so they can be used with different door thicknesses, not as a single piece as you've shown. So it's entirely up to you where you place the stop, which in turn determines where the door sits within the lining. But if you buy certified fire door linings then I expect you are a lot more constrained by the presence of the groove for the intumescent strip (I don't know for sure since I've never fitted those). I don't know either whether you have to use certified linings.

    The lining is designed to take the weight of the door and the screws don't need to go back into the studwork. The doors are normally fitted flush with the edge of the lining so that the hinges project forward into clear space and don't need space creating by carving into the lining.

    The plasterboard is the fire resistant layer, so I'm not sure why you think exposing more timber is better? But in any case, a fire on the other side of the door would have exposed timber anyway. The fire resistance of the door is generally not long enough for it to matter, I suspect.
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeNov 28th 2017
     
    Are the door casings ( orange) machined exactly as you show them or is that just a simple depiction?
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeNov 28th 2017
     
    There will be a problem at the hinge side as the hinge wont be at the edge, danger of ripping it out, the door will not open past 90 degrees

    Have done it before, need an extra long keep plate as the latch runs a long way across the frame before engaging, leaving a mark on the paint if no metal to run on
    • CommentAuthorHollyBush
    • CommentTimeNov 28th 2017
     
    Also look at other hinges e.g. parliament hinges
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeNov 28th 2017
     
    Parliament hinges mean the path of the opening edge of the door as it opens, wants to swing wide of its closed position, will foul the frame reveal. With door conventionally mounted flush with wall face, usually get away with it, but in this scenario the frame reveal will have to be chamfered to clear.
  2.  
    Posted By: owlmanAre the door casings ( orange) machined exactly as you show them or is that just a simple depiction?

    That's just a simple depiction. I can't find any linings the right size, so I'm going to get some planed square timber and insert an intumescent strip.
  3.  
    Posted By: tonyThere will be a problem at the hinge side as the hinge wont be at the edge, danger of ripping it out, the door will not open past 90 degrees

    Yes, that had occurred to me. It's not such a problem as the door will back onto a wardrobe anyway. Some kind of doorstop would be necessary I suppose.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeNov 28th 2017
     
    Yes, it would be a good idea unless the wardrobe does the job anyway.
  4.  
    Posted By: ComeOnPilgrim
    Posted By: tonyThere will be a problem at the hinge side as the hinge wont be at the edge, danger of ripping it out, the door will not open past 90 degrees

    Yes, that had occurred to me. It's not such a problem as the door will back onto a wardrobe anyway. Some kind of doorstop would be necessary I suppose.

    Opening against the wardrobe is ok - if the wardrobe is built in (and you don't envisage changing it). If its a free standing one then I would not mount the door in the centre of the lining.

    Without a door stop there will be a lot of strain on the hinges every time the door is opened and comes up against the frame lining

    Posted By: tonyHave done it before, need an extra long keep plate as the latch runs a long way across the frame before engaging, leaving a mark on the paint if no metal to run on

    +1
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeNov 29th 2017
     
    Posted By: Peter_in_HungaryOpening against the wardrobe is ok

    If there is no doorstop then you also need to be careful of the handle striking the wall/wardrobe.
    • CommentAuthorcjard
    • CommentTimeNov 29th 2017
     
    >need an extra long keep plate as the latch runs a long way across the frame before engaging

    Though I haven't yet fitted them, for my door catches I have some incredibly powerful neodymium magnets (North/South paired), circular and approx 20mm, with a countersunk hole in the centre. I plan to recess the frame (where a keep would go) and the door edge slightly and mount the magnets such that when the door is closed, there's 1mm or so between the magnets, to act as a frictionless/no-contact catch.. It should thus prove reasonably easy to push on the door and separate the magnets

    I really should fit one and then I can comment on the effectiveness of the approach - it would work well for this situation. As well as effectively wiping any credit cards if I mount it at pocket height and someone leans on the door :) Thank goodness for chip n pin!

    The things you do for a boss who wants a quiet house..
    • CommentAuthorcjard
    • CommentTimeNov 29th 2017
     
    ps; I did the same, ordered PSE beech (as it happens) frames in 25x150 and a planted stop in 10x40.. I've screwed the beech frame to the TF studwork on the hinge side, tight up with packers, then attached the hinges to the frame. I'm in no doubt about the strength of the beech to hold the door, despite being oak and glazed so around 35kg each

    I can thoroughly recommend getting (or making) a hinge jig and router rather than messing around with wood chisels, chopping out 3 hinges per hardwood door/frame - my router was 90 quid, a trend 1/4 inch job, and the hinge jig was 40 from here - https://www.chippyshop.co.uk/Worktop_Jigs/hinge_jig.html - a bit wobbly tbh until I braced both edges with a rip of beech, and set it all up so the stops were fixed in place; I dont think I'll ever need it to be adjustable, as I'll only ever install doors with 2 or 3 hinges in those specific locations, and only ever use screwfix's grade 13 fire hinges (get ones with rounded corners then they fit into routered holes without needing the rounded routered corner chopping out)
    • CommentAuthorPaulJ
    • CommentTimeNov 29th 2017
     
    The door lining will be softwood for 30 mins or hardwood for 60 mins and is packed out and screwed securely to the reveal of the timber frame. Fire rated foam in the gaps. The door hinges are screwed to the side of the lining into which the door opens. There will be no issue with weight.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeNov 29th 2017
     
    Posted By: cjardThe things you do for a boss who wants a quiet house..

    As well as the intumescent strip, you'll probably need a draft strip type cushion to stop the noise of the door slamming shut. That may well affect the stop position, also.
    • CommentAuthorcjard
    • CommentTimeNov 30th 2017 edited
     
    Clearly great minds think alike and fools seldom differ :)
      ADAB33CE-DCAF-40FB-8784-B34A78B94ADE.jpeg
  5.  
    Thanks everyone! In the light of all the helpful advice, I've decided to mount it on the front of the jamb, usual style.
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