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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

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    • CommentAuthorrevor
    • CommentTimeDec 7th 2017
    Just had a discussion when ordering my FFTP now it is available, about the installation. They will send a open Reach engineer to fit the box on the outside wall of the house and drill through. No I stated I have provided an underground ducting as I don't want holes in my very well sealed house thank you nor overhead cables either. Person I was speaking to did not know what a ducting was and I would have to discuss with the engineer when he called. Considering that a considerable amount of cabling is done via ducting I was surprised that the level of knowledge was so poor.

    Anyway went on line to chat with BT support as what would happen to the current land line. I asked specifically would the phone calls coming to the house be via the existing line or via the fibre line. I could not get a straight answer. As fibre can carry so much data I would have thought it would come via fibre but a neighbour has had FTTP installed and his phone calls come via the existing copper line.

    Does anyone know how it all works?
    I wasn't allowed to have an Openreach underground cable installed through ducting to the inside of my house. Openreach told me they would install to the outside of the house where the cable terminates in a box. Apparently it's a safety issue and gas could enter the house through their ducting. I pointed out there wasn't any gas in our area but they took no notice. So they lost a customer as I now have WiMAX which incorporates VoIP for my house telephone.
    • CommentAuthorDarylP
    • CommentTimeDec 7th 2017
    Fibre does not mean continuous fibre... the last link from the street cabinet to the dwelling can be twisted copper.
    You may get 100% fibre, or fibre and a bit of copper... depends on your local infrastructure?

    Thanks for raising this. I'm a few months from being in a similar position and didn't know this might be an issue - we installed a duct with draw wires to allow for cables to run into the house for the same reasons as you.

    I do know there is a new Building Regulation that covers the ducts (Approved Document R: https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200128/building_control/124/part_r_-_electronic_communications). It might or might not apply to your build depending on the nature of the work done (and when) but if you do comply, perhaps you can point them to this?
    • CommentAuthorgoodevans
    • CommentTimeDec 7th 2017
    I Imagine that the revor is enquiring about FTTP (not FFTP as stated) which is Fibre To The Premises. DarylP, you are right in that what the telecom marketing people call fibre is usually FTTC (fibre to the cabinet).

    If you are near enough to the cabinet FTTC service speeds can reach the heady levels of 80Mb/s but for me its only 17Mb/s because, although the cabinet is 500m away the copper goes all the way to the end of the village before coming back to our house. FTTP speeds start at a blistering 330Mb/s minimum - higher speeds are available.

    For domestic customers FTTP would still be fairly rare so I'm not surprised BT/Openreach are struggling with the order.

    Part R is easy to comply with you need an access point (it says nothing about what an access point is - I suspect the brown hole cover is sufficient - a duct from this point to where the network termination point is (i.e master phone socket) and according to the part R the duct can be "simply a hole drilled in the wall".
    • CommentTimeDec 7th 2017
    Posted By: PeterStarckI now have WiMAX

    Where did you get that, if you don't mind me asking?

    Posted By: DarylPFibre does not mean continuous fibre... the last link from the street cabinet to the dwelling can be twisted copper.

    That's the difference between FTTP and FTTC.

    Posted By: Doubting_ThomasI do know there is a new Building Regulation that covers the ducts (Approved Document R:

    We had a discussion of this a little while ago: http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=15293

    I just found a useful guide that explains what is connected to the end of a fibre: https://www.ournetwork.openreach.co.uk/resources/site1/General/Downloads/fibre_developer_handbook.pdf

    I suspect it will come down to what the individual Openreach guy is willing to do on the day.
    • CommentAuthorgravelld
    • CommentTimeDec 7th 2017
    Can't you get FTTP from anyone else?

    I bury my head in my hands every time one of my parents takes up something new with them, I know I'll be hearing about it in a few weeks.

    Use a proper ISP like Andrews and Arnold.
    • CommentAuthorrevor
    • CommentTimeDec 7th 2017
    Thanks you so far most interesting comments. My apologies for getting the shorthand wrong I did mean FTTP. Being some distance from the exchange we will have fibre all the way to the house as there is some rule or other if you are more than 500 m from the cabinet you get FTTP. I was interested in Peter S comment re the gas issue as when we started our build (extension and renovation of farmhouse) I was supplied by BT with ducting and suitable copper cable to go into it but because of massive delays we have been overtaken by fact that fibre is now available. I cannot therefore see why Open Reach object to ducting when they provided it in the first place. What about other service providers e.g. electricity ducting.

    late this p.m had follow up call from BT customer service who had monitored my on line chat with BT reps in Asia I guess they were located, who was also not happy with the response I got and them not answering the question I posed. Anyway he clarified that I could have the fibre through the ducting and that the telephone service would continue to be provided via the existing copper phone line.
    Posted By: djh
    Posted By: PeterStarckI now have WiMAX

    Where did you get that, if you don't mind me asking?

    A local company called Vfast.
    • CommentTimeDec 8th 2017
    Thanks. I hadn't realized domestic Wimax was available :)
    • CommentTimeDec 8th 2017
    I have FTTP installed, I use Zen internet as I don’t like BT.
    All the installation was done by BT Openreach though.

    I was advised to keep the copper for the landline, as I wanted to remove the overhead line I declined and have ported my local number to voip. Works great and I get voicemails emailed to my mobile.

    I understand that if you use BT as the isp you can have a landline on the same fibre connection though using something called Fibre Voice Access.

    FTTP is excellent though, well worth the effort.
    I have FTTP via BT, installed earlier this year, after a 3-year-long battle as our internet over copper was <1mbps. Currently getting around 300mpbs :)

    Not having a well insulated house, I wasn't worried about the fibre entry to the house, but I did dig 150m of ducting to get it from the road to the house, replacing the old copper.

    We switched our voice over from copper to the fibre and it's worked just fine. If the line it out, then the copper is likely to be out too and we have mobile coverage if it's needed.

    BT have a specific FTTP team who are much more clued up to the regular teams, if you can talk to them, they'll have all the necessary information and are generally very helpful.
    Oh, you don't always have to have a box on the outside of the house. We have a fibre coming straight into the house itself and is then terminated at a modem box in my server cupboard which then feeds to the router. There's a separate connection for copper to a standard socket if you choose to keep the copper or you plug the phone straight in to the modem if you move over to having voice over the fibre.
    • CommentAuthorFred56
    • CommentTimeDec 9th 2017
    It's interesting that BT take different approaches to the voice service with FTTP. We have had FTTP for two years. When we moved here it was the only choice. They would not give us regular broadband despite my next door neighbour having it. We had to to have the FTTP. We also have to take the voice over the copper line even though we don't want or use it. I was told that the fibre could not handle voice.
    Don't assume FTTP is automatically better. We formerly lived in North Yorks and had 76Mb FTTC. The 76 Mb FTTP we have in Cornwall is not as good. The problem is the lag effect which appears to be the 500 to 600ms ping time. BT say that's just fine. We just have constant stalling.
    We hate BT but the fact is that there is no alternative. I see Zen can now offer a service but it's still Openreach and it costs more. Why pay more for the same thing?
    Bring on mobile internet so we can all ditch the landline.
    • CommentTimeDec 9th 2017
    Posted By: Fred56Bring on mobile internet so we can all ditch the landline.
    I have been using it for over a year now, apart from that data cap (I am too tight to pay for more), it is a pretty reliable service. Often faster to download than my old TalkTalk service (which also disconnected several times a day).
    Now if I lived on the Lizard, the home of radio communication, life would be very different :confused:
    • CommentAuthorgoodevans
    • CommentTimeDec 9th 2017 edited
    500ms ping time is truly awful - I can ping Australia in 338ms, The USA west coast in 157ms.

    this site https://www.thinkbroadband.com/guides/fibre-fttc-ftth-broadband-guide seems to sum up the different services well - watch out for the difference between FTTP on demand (expensive but 330Mb) and WBC FTTP which appears to offer similar speeds to FTTC (at similar prices) but, as there is no copper, it doesn't matter how far from the cabinet/exchange.

    Fred, with that performance - there is either something really wrong with some piece of kit in the network or your data is being routed via satellite.
    • CommentTimeDec 9th 2017
    500 ms sounds more like pinging via satellite? Try pinging (google's DNS) - I get 30 ms

    ah, I see goodevans also mentions satellite!

    Posted By: Fred56We hate BT but the fact is that there is no alternative. I see Zen can now offer a service but it's still Openreach and it costs more. Why pay more for the same thing?

    Because Zen won't fob you off with "that's fine" with those sorts of ping times. They know what they're doing and they'll chase Openreach if necessary until the problem is resolved. And if I phone up with a problem, they don't tell me to reboot my PC etc etc.
    • CommentAuthorborpin
    • CommentTimeDec 10th 2017
    Posted By: djhBecause Zen won't fob you off with "that's fine" with those sorts of ping times.
    Pay yer money take your choice.
    I'm happy with mainstream cheaper connection, but if it was part of my work, I'd pay more for better service.
    • CommentAuthorrevor
    • CommentTimeJan 27th 2018
    Finally had after much toing and froing my FTTP completed this week.52 mps. Not seen such an organisation so disorganised we even had a crew turn up to install the cable when a team had already been a week earlier to do it. the engineer that did the last bit was very helpful and told me that if I wanted the phone line down the fibre I could request it at a later date. When they do this there is a space in the modem to put in a rechargeable battery so that the phone can be powered in the event of a power cut.
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