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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
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    Does anyone have any information on labour time for foaming on boards as opposed to studding walls and fixing?

    Looking to do over 4000m2 in work and trying to bring in foaming if it works out faster/cheaper. i'd ideally like a SPONS build up or literature from a manufacturer so I can justify it.

    I've emailed Kingspan but yet to repsond.

    Thanks in advance
    IWI or EWI?
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeDec 14th 2017
    Foam is very much faster
    • CommentAuthorDarylP
    • CommentTimeDec 14th 2017
    +1 to the above:bigsmile:
    IWI, I know it's faster but I'm hoping to justify it with actual figures if possible.
    Do the companies accept it as an approved method of fixing? *If not*, then until they do, forget the comparisons, from a commercial point of view anyway, because the installations would not be done according to the 3rd-party-certified method, and BCOs could refuse to accept.

    (Did a quick check on 2 major manufacturers' sites and they both seem to refer to gypsum-based adhesives on their data sheets. I have not looked for the 3rd-party certifications). Worth a call to their tech dept. What 'we' feel to be OK (and perhaps best practice) may not be thought so by the manufacturers.
    It is listed in Kingspan Kooltherm K118 November 2016 Technical document page 9 onwards.

    But nothing on time...
    VE, you are right, I'd just been back and seen that, but it's not referred to in their guidance video.

    Their site says:

    ''Looking to use fewer fixings? Watch the video on how to install with the recommended adhesive.''

    The reference throughout is to adhesive, but no specific adhesive is referred to.

    ''Prefer to read instead?
    Download the Kooltherm K118 Insulated Plasterboard product brochure.''

    Obviously -as I always thought! - reading is better, as the written document includes specific ref to acrylic or Pu adhesion.
    • CommentAuthorGarethC
    • CommentTimeDec 15th 2017
    Just out of interest, can you get "self adhesive" boards? I. E with a backing paper you just peeled off from high strength adhesive acrylic sheet? They would make installation super fast, wouldn't they?
    Posted By: GarethCJust out of interest, can you get "self adhesive" boards? I. E with a backing paper you just peeled off from high strength adhesive acrylic sheet? They would make installation super fast, wouldn't they?

    I've not seen any over here but unless your substrate was very flat you would only get sticky where it touched. At least with foam you will get some gap filling.
    Good in theory, Gareth, but I think not in normal building practice for the reason P_in_H gives. Someone did suggest velcro to me recently....

    (...and no, I don't think they exist).
    Yeah it states the method in the pdf but I was hoping to 'quantify' such method to my boss
    • CommentAuthorGarethC
    • CommentTimeDec 17th 2017
    But if the existing substrate - was - pretty flat (which isn't uncommon, is it?) would it be a big time (and mess) saving? Feels like it should be, but I'm no expert. What do you think?

    And if the adhesive backing was even just 2mm foam sheet, the play would help fill imperfections in the substrate too. High strength double sided adhesive foam sheet is pretty cheap. I'm getting crazy ideas about experimenting in my workshop then spare bedroom!

    Sincere apologies for hijacking the thread Victorian.
    Most sticky tape has a tendency to dry out over time, would the double sided adhesive foam sheet be immune from this or would the PB start detaching after some years.

    Lots of discussion on other threads about which tape can be used for VCL joins and the stuff that retains its stiction seems to be silly expensive, would the double sided adhesive foam sheet be similarly long lasting to the expensive VCL tape?
    • CommentTimeDec 18th 2017
    Personally I've still no idea whether "IWI or EWI?" or what? Describe the situation.
    Post 5 Tom
    • CommentTimeDec 19th 2017
    Ah right. But who's going to stud-line a wall just to fix IWI? surely the essence of IWI is just to stick it to the wall?
    Lots of people stud frame walls including on here...
    • CommentTimeDec 19th 2017
    Build a stud framed wall yes - but studding to line an existing wall? If it's way out of plumb or straight, and if that matters, then maybe.

    But ordinary brick or block wall -
    either it's flat enough to stick insulation/plasterboard laminate boards on direct with foam or cementitious plasterboard adhesive (the notorious dot'n'dab, or better-practice variants)
    or there's e.g. metal furrings to blob on to straighten the surface enough to screwfix the boards (again, the void-behind issue - but studding won't help or hinder that)
    • CommentAuthorkayserasera
    • CommentTimeDec 22nd 2017 edited
    Does "foamed board " mean factory made PIR stuck to plasterboard product being stuck on the wall with adhsive foam, or something else ?
    ''Does "foamed board " mean factory made PIR stuck to plasterboard product being stuck on the wall with adhsive foam''

    Yes, although composite boards with other foam insulants are available.
    I stud lined the last one I did because it was significantly less expensive overall than foaming with a combined insulo-pb product, and if the performance difference is not material I am happy spending more on labour.

    The comparative material costs were something like £26-28 per 8x4 section for framed with separate 50mm PIR insulation and pb, while a combined product such as Celotex PL 3040 was £60-65 just for the board, ignoring the foam cost. Have allowed 10mm less pir for the combined product to give an allowance for batten heat bridges etc.

    Even with 10-20% nurdled off the price could I find it etc the difference is huge.

    I might swing the other way and absorb the difference were time of the essence.
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