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    • CommentAuthorgravelld
    • CommentTimeFeb 10th 2018
     
    See the photo!

    As part of my retrofit I'm going to need to treat this window seat.

    Here's what my plan *was*:

    - EWI to wall, meeting EWI on main wall
    - Change from U shape to L shape (losing a window), meeting the wall at the right angle
    - Envelope the soil stack you can see behind the window seat, to reduce penetrations
    - Warm roof in same design as my other threads
    - New windows in insulation layer

    However, some problems:

    - Currently I think the windows are structural in that they (or the corner timbers) support the roof. So can I still move the windows out?
    - I think it's going to be tight to envelope the soil stack, is it worth it? What else can I do if the window seat becomes an L shape? The stack is currently where insulation would be.

    Any ideas gratefully received!
      IMG_20180210_112552879.jpg
  1.  
    '' Change from U shape to L shape (losing a window), meeting the wall at the right angle''
    Can you explain (or sketch) further?

    Thanks.
  2.  
    Losing the end window wouldn't be a great loss as it's so close to the main wall. If the bay is structural then moving the window out would certainly complicate matters. If it were mine I would lose the other small side window as well and keep the window seat as it is. Putting EWI around the existing bay would be easier that way.
    • CommentAuthorgravelld
    • CommentTimeFeb 10th 2018 edited
     
    Posted By: Nick Parsons'' Change from U shape to L shape (losing a window), meeting the wall at the right angle''
    Can you explain (or sketch) further?

    Thanks.
    Before (left) and after:
      window_seat_before.JPG
    • CommentAuthorgravelld
    • CommentTimeFeb 10th 2018
     
    Posted By: PeterStarckLosing the end window wouldn't be a great loss as it's so close to the main wall. If the bay is structural then moving the window out would certainly complicate matters. If it were mine I would lose the other small side window as well and keep the window seat as it is. Putting EWI around the existing bay would be easier that way.
    Replace joinery in-situ then, and open up the roof and insulate as much as possible? Bit concerned about the TB at the eaves.
  3.  
    Posted By: gravelldReplace joinery in-situ then, and open up the roof and insulate as much as possible? Bit concerned about the TB at the eaves.

    Yes replace joinery in-situ and when the roof is opened up it will be easier to see what alterations are required to maximise the insulation. It depends on how much work you want to do on what is a small area.
    • CommentAuthorgravelld
    • CommentTimeFeb 11th 2018
     
    You're right, small area, but I think it makes quite a difference on this room (a living room, so heated a bit more). U=3 for the glazing, I think no insulation on the ceiling (according to a thermal imaging gun) and I'm not sure if these cavity walls have insulation either. Plus the vent for the stove, PLUS a suspicion the steel won't be air sealed so ventilating the ground floor void... I think it all adds up.

    You can't really sit on the window seat in winter because it's too cold, which kind of defeats the point.
  4.  
    Posted By: gravelldYou can't really sit on the window seat in winter because it's too cold, which kind of defeats the point.

    So the easiest solution is to remove the bay altogether and replace with a flat window.
    • CommentAuthorgravelld
    • CommentTimeFeb 11th 2018
     
    Agree - it's the easiest solution if the question is how do we minimise energy use and it's one I've brought up. Here I'm having to be pragmatic; 'stakeholders' view the window seat as 'character' and a focal/interest point for the room.

    Maybe floor to ceiling glazing may have "character"...
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeFeb 11th 2018
     
    I'd keep the window seat, although I'd convert it to an L as you suggest. I'd keep the one side window too 'cos I think that's an essential part of the charm. I'd do my best to make it more comfortable with insulation, and if there's a need for a heat emitter then the seat cushion or underneath is a perfect place for it.

    I think you'll want to move the windows into the insulation layer otherwise the side window will become much too narrow.
    • CommentAuthorgravelld
    • CommentTimeFeb 12th 2018
     
    Thanks. So what to do about the fact the windows currently appear to support the roof? Replace the roof? Or some other internal support for the roof?

    Any thoughts about the soil stack?
  5.  
    Posted By: gravelld Here I'm having to be pragmatic; 'stakeholders' view the window seat as 'character' and a focal/interest point for the room.


    Reading between the lines it seems you have decided that you would like to keep the window seat. If that is the case then without knowing exactly how the bay is constructed you should allow for having to replace the roof and supporting structure. Have you investigated internally how the bay is constructed?
  6.  
    Do the math, such a small area which you're going to keep the window area much the same.

    What do you actually gain? Using actual figures?
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeFeb 12th 2018
     
    Posted By: gravelldReplace the roof?

    You obviously have to replace the roof since the EWI makes the area to be covered bigger.

    What Peter said.
    • CommentAuthorgoodevans
    • CommentTimeFeb 12th 2018
     
    I think would make the roof self supporting using the wall above the lintel - little triangular trusses fixed to the wall filled with insulation (or does anyone think the wall could not take that roof overhang). Then the window corner(s) need not be structural.
    • CommentAuthorgravelld
    • CommentTimeFeb 12th 2018
     
    Posted By: VictorianecoDo the math, such a small area which you're going to keep the window area much the same.

    What do you actually gain? Using actual figures?
    Gain compared to what? Currently, or less meticulous retrofit?

    Well, U=3 at the moment for the glazing and I suspect the ceiling of the seat is uninsulated.

    Sum energy balance atm is -713kWh/a. Given target joinery and one less window, -24kWh/a. And that's just the windows (which need replacing).
    • CommentAuthorgravelld
    • CommentTimeFeb 12th 2018
     
    Looks like more investigation is required, thanks everyone.
    • CommentAuthorgravelld
    • CommentTimeFeb 13th 2018 edited
     
    Ah-ha! Well, it's amazing what a bit of research and persuasion can do.

    I found this concept of Paul Testa's. In the original at Sycamore Hall retrofit he has the windows protruding outside, covered by the eaves of the bungalow.

    The "stakeholder" loves it and says the window seat can go!

    In my case I have about 450mm of wall minus 100mm of window. Paul reckons 400mm is needed minimum (https://twitter.com/dan_gravell/status/963345897085161472). So if I can work out a way of protruding internally I think this will be a good solution.
      sycamore-hall-4.jpg
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