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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
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    • CommentAuthorgravelld
    • CommentTimeFeb 14th 2018
    Heating in my office (early 2000s build) goes something like this:

    - Get into office in the morning, it's 12C
    - Put heating on to 20C for a couple of hours
    - Gets there in about an hour, ticks over for the next hour. I feel warm during this first hour.
    - During that second hour I get progressively colder, even though two separate thermometers (one in the room 'stat) placed next to me insist it's 19-20C and I felt fine at 19-20C before.
    - And obviously it gets worse after this, but if I turn the heating back on it refuses to make me feel warm again

    Is it radiated loss somehow? I'm guessing the thermometers are measuring the air temperature.
    Metabolic rate after breakfast?
    Humidity change due to heating system?

    Worth having a read through this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_comfort

    Outside chance it's something more serious like Raynauds or blood circulation related though so get them checked out if possible.
    • CommentAuthormark_s
    • CommentTimeFeb 14th 2018
    When you get in you've been moving around your body is warm and generating heat. You then sit still at a desk and you feel cold.

    As an alternative are you female? If so then up the thermostat to 26 or so.

    I get this (and I have Raynauds) - do you find that your hands and feet are cold and go blue/feel numb?

    Fingerless gloves are surprisingly good.
    • CommentAuthorgoodevans
    • CommentTimeFeb 14th 2018
    Also the desk, chair and anything else in contact with your body will be colder than the air for a few hours and will suck heat out of you.

    My usual solution is a lightweight down gilet - once the core body temp builds up the capillaries in the extremities open up to cool the body and then ... warm hands. Put it on before you feel cold and the capillaries have constricted for best results.
    • CommentAuthorgravelld
    • CommentTimeFeb 14th 2018 edited
    Posted By: Doubting_ThomasOutside chance it's something more serious like Raynauds
    Heh - well actually not such an outside chance - my Grandmother had it and I've already self diagnosed myself as having it to. Haven't been able to take a ring of for two weeks because of chilblains! So this to an extent answers the question about my hands, but it's not just my hands - it generally feels cold.
    • CommentAuthorgravelld
    • CommentTimeFeb 14th 2018
    Posted By: goodevansMy usual solution is a lightweight down gilet - once the core body temp builds up the capillaries in the extremities open up to cool the body and then ... warm hands. Put it on before you feel cold and the capillaries have constricted for best results.
    I've never thought of it that way - just assumed wearing more on the core meant the body retained more warmth thus warming the extremities, but I suppose cooling may also be related.

    I'm a bloke and I run three times a week and do bodyweight training twice a week, I hope exercise is not a problem. I don't smoke or eat crap.

    Interesting thoughts about metabolic rate. I could try snacking on nuts and the like.
    • CommentAuthorbarney
    • CommentTimeFeb 14th 2018
    Is your sign vital

    If so, I might know the problem - you've unknowingly joined the a Killers tribute band

    • CommentAuthorgoodevans
    • CommentTimeFeb 14th 2018 edited
    I struggle when I sit down - my metabolism seems to drop significantly - particularly at night. Eating doesn't help much - I've even tried spicy snacks to get the blood flowing.

    The body defiantly uses blood flow to the limbs for temperature regulation both for heat preservation and heat dumping - objective 1 is to prevent the body core temperature reducing so that the body feels it has to restrict blood flow to the limbs - objective 2 is to warm the core temperature to encourage the body to dilate those blood vessels (this seems to happen suddenly at the point the body wishes to perspire).

    The nice thing with a down gilet is that it's breathable and not restrictive to the arms - It is not a garment that you feel has to be removed at the slightest hint of heat.
    • CommentAuthorgravelld
    • CommentTimeFeb 14th 2018
    Posted By: barneyIs your sign vital

    If so, I might know the problem - you've unknowingly joined the a Killers tribute band
    What? :shocked: :surprised:
    • CommentAuthorgyrogear
    • CommentTimeFeb 14th 2018
    Why are my hands so cold?

    it sounds like
    they have become
    uncomfortably numb...

    (with apologies, of course...)

    • CommentAuthorskyewright
    • CommentTimeFeb 14th 2018 edited
    Posted By: mark_sFingerless gloves are surprisingly good.

    +1 for the fingerless gloves, though I often find that a wrist band is enough.

    +1 too for the gilet.

    My gilet isn't a down one, so...

    ...if still cold I add a shawl (either a small 'pet size' fibre pile blanket, or a shemagh)!

    I also find that applying moisturiser is good for chilblains & circulation. It helps combat the dry skin and working it in encourages circulation.


    Edit to add: "My gilet isn't a down one, so..."
    • CommentAuthortorrent99
    • CommentTimeFeb 15th 2018
    As well as the usual warm clothes suggestions, I've found a really effective way to keep warm.

    Electric blanket on the office chair. Only uses 40W (for a single) and keeps you toasty all day without even turning the heating on!

    (be sure to use with an RCD and make sure it doesn't ruck up on itself)
    • CommentAuthorgoodevans
    • CommentTimeFeb 15th 2018
    I know down is expensive but for the combination of breathability and insulation its much better than anything else I've used. Any polyester fill garments makes me uncomfortable as soon as I get warm and so I take them off so condition 2 above is not reached.

    If the floor is cold I use a heated pet pad to put my feet on with the dog quilt on top. Under these conditions the dog is usually sociable and snuggles up on the warm bed as well.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeFeb 15th 2018
    Poor circulation in your arms? Try a cup of tea. Works for me.
    • CommentAuthormarktime
    • CommentTimeFeb 15th 2018 edited
    Interesting thread. Happens to me after about half an hour in the pool at around 21/22 deg C. No problem swimming but fingers go white, lose feeling and takes about another half hour to get them back to normal. Thanks for the heads up on Raynauds.
    • CommentAuthormarsaday
    • CommentTimeFeb 15th 2018
    Raynaud's is an indicator of low thyroid function.

    All humans thyroid function drops off as we age.

    Low thyroid function is a hidden mainstream problem, but the doctors will not recognise it as a simple hormone imbalance. No money to be made from providing thyroid hormones.

    This thyroid forum on health unlocked is a great info resource. This discussion is about raynauds:


    If you want to assess your metabolism take your temperature on waking up. Ideally it wants to be at 36.6C. If you are down at 36.2C and lower you are experiencing a lower metabolic rate. The temp in the day wants to hit 37C in the afternoon. Again lower temps indicate lower metabolic activity.

    Coffee is very good at boosting metabolic rate temporarily.
    • CommentAuthorgravelld
    • CommentTimeFeb 15th 2018
    I see a lot of advice to reduce caffeine though wrt Raynaud's?
    • CommentAuthorgyrogear
    • CommentTimeFeb 15th 2018
    and *I* am starting to see a lot of sources mentioning cellphone use and possible links with hypothryoidism...

    such as...


    • CommentAuthorgravelld
    • CommentTimeFeb 16th 2018
    Calling @fostertom... get your tin foil hats on ;-)
    • CommentAuthordickster
    • CommentTimeFeb 16th 2018
    Interesting! Our house sits at about 21 C in the winter from about 8 am to bedtime.

    I wear the same clothing indoors come winter/summer.

    In the winter, I can feel cold despite the temp being the same as in summer, when I don't feel cold.

    Maybe it is to do with what I can see out of the window?

    If I see a frosty scene, does my brain say, blimey, it's cold, better withdraw blood from extremities to ensure survival?

    • CommentAuthorgoodevans
    • CommentTimeFeb 16th 2018 edited
    I have also puzzled about this - my conclusion is that mainly the result of colder internal surfaces of the external envelope (floor, walls, roof) in a poorly insulated house (sorry if I've disrespected your house).

    The radiative balance between a clothed human and the environment is altered and, as a result, more heat is lost.
    • CommentAuthorgoodevans
    • CommentTimeFeb 16th 2018
    For actual numbers: a back of the envelope calculation gives around 6 watts per m2 of humans surface per degree difference. Assume 2 m2 surface area. your clothed surface temperature indoors may be around 28 degC on average...

    21 degree walls = 84 watts lost through radiation

    18 degree walls = 120 watts lost through radiation

    That 35 watt shortfall would be noticeable.
    • CommentTimeFeb 16th 2018
    Hell, if I go outside now, I will be radiating 168W plus some convection and conductance losses.
    I may not make it back :wink:
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeFeb 16th 2018
    "He's just going outside, and may be some time"

    Don't go Steamy:bigsmile:
    • CommentAuthorgoodevans
    • CommentTimeFeb 16th 2018
    I'm about to walk the dog - and I'm deffo wrapping up to reduce my average surface temp.
    • CommentTimeFeb 16th 2018
    Today's the first day I went outside WITHOUT wrapping up :bigsmile: Just my shirtsleeves is warm enough for short periods in the garden.
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeFeb 16th 2018
    I'm guessing you're reet 'Ard, Dave:wink:
    • CommentTimeFeb 17th 2018
    Sadly not, I'm more of a wuss. :cry: It was a nice sunny day yesterday, so it was plenty warm enough outside. Inside, the living room got up to 25°C and we had no heating yesterday. The thermal store also got up to full temperature (90°C throughout) from the PV today. Summer's here! But I expect winter will be back shortly.
    Let to the party here - but if your office starts off at 12C, all the surfaces will be at 12C. Even if the heating warms the air up to 20C (which is what the thermostat sees) your surfaces will take much longer to warm up and so you will feel the "cold radiation" from these. This is why, for the same air temperature, you don't get this affect in summer as the surfaces will be essentially at the same temperature as the air. Here in cold Montreal, when it's in the -20s outside, even though I keep the air temperature constant, the comfort level is affected as the surfaces do get a bit colder in some rooms. In the rooms where they don't, there's less of a perceived difference with outdoor temperature (and it's really only noticeable when it's below -20C).

    Paul in Montreal.
    • CommentAuthorgravelld
    • CommentTimeFeb 19th 2018
    Yes I wondered that. Particularly whether the desk was part of the story. I'll take my IR camera in tomorrow.
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