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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

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    • CommentAuthorKenny_M
    • CommentTimeFeb 26th 2018
     
    Posted By: richardelliot
    Posted By: delpradoMy take is that I understand the point of data cabling to be able to stream between rooms effectively, but anything to do with satellite, TV or phone, these are 20th century technologies and surely we dont need that anymore!


    I don't think they are redundant yet (although moving that way). Can you rule out never wanting a Sky?


    Sky announced last month that they are phasing out dishes from later this year, and moving the full service to an internet model. I imagine it will take years for the old dishes to go, but no new ones from sometime next year by the looks of it.

    I have used freesat for years for the TV, and for movies on my projector I am still getting blu ray discs sent out by cinema paradiso - streaming never seems to compare for picture quality.
    • CommentAuthorMackers
    • CommentTimeFeb 26th 2018
     
    In a nutshell the higher grade of cabling eg.Cat6A can transmit higher rates of data over a longer distance. Cat6A is also more resilient to cross talk or interference.

    It all depends on your situation but Cat6A is now a lot cheaper and a smaller cross section than before.
    • CommentAuthordelprado
    • CommentTimeFeb 27th 2018
     
    Kenny - thats the elephant in the room no one is talking about. It depresses me greatly that peple mare happy with the crap quality on netflix. Nothing competes with a blue ray and at present although our networks can stream it, our internet cannot and of course that places other demands on infrastructure and storage at netflix end etc.

    Still amazes me that love film went under, but thats why its depressing, obviously no one cares!
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeFeb 27th 2018
     
    Posted By: delpradoNothing competes with a blue ray and at present although our networks can stream it

    There used to be a quip that the highest bandwidth link between London and Manchester was a Transit filled with mag tapes. It's probably still true modulo blue ray or SSD instead of the tapes.
    • CommentAuthorKenny_M
    • CommentTimeFeb 27th 2018
     
    Posted By: delpradoStill amazes me that love film went under, but thats why its depressing, obviously no one cares!


    Lovefilm didn't really go under, Amazon bought it then ran it into the ground, obviously working on the premise that most users would jump over to prime video. Cinema Paradiso is just as good as Lovefilm was though.

    Its not so much that people don't care, probably more that the mass market is watching on phones, tablets, or TV's with a fairly large distance to screen ratio, so they just don't notice the picture quality. I'm watching on a 2 metre wide projector screen, about 3.5m away, so the difference in quality from so called HD on streaming and Bluray is immediately noticeable. In fact I find standard resolution TV is better quality than most streamed alleged HD.
    • CommentAuthordelprado
    • CommentTimeFeb 27th 2018
     
    quite sinister that amazon did that if so.
  1.  
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: Kenny_M</cite><blockquote><cite>
    Its not so much that people don't care, probably more that the mass market is watching on phones, tablets, or TV's with a fairly large distance to screen ratio,......In fact I find standard resolution TV is better quality than most streamed alleged HD.</blockquote>

    I'm not sure that's the case anymore - everyone seems to have huge TVs these days but most people obviously don't care or don't understand the tech. They've bought something that's '4k' so they think it must be good.

    I stuck with LoveFilm BluRay and resisted streaming for a long while but ultimately the convenience of being able to watch what I wanted rather than what they'd deemed to send I wavered.

    My TV is a 50" Panasonic Plasma and we're fairly close to it. I can instantly spot a SD broadcast if when I walk in the room. Some TV is still over compressed but the main channels, especially the BBC, do a good job of encoding most of the time.

    Bitrates on movies rented on Apple TV are pretty good now. They're nowhere near BR level but they're really not bad. (Blu Ray can peak at over 40k)
    https://developer.apple.com/library/content/documentation/General/Reference/HLSAuthoringSpec/Requirements.html
    • CommentAuthordelprado
    • CommentTimeFeb 27th 2018
     
    As a side note, I prolificlly pirate now due to the inability to consume media int he way I want - ie digital blu ray downloads.
    • CommentAuthorKenny_M
    • CommentTimeFeb 27th 2018
     
    Simon, what I notice is that with streaming HD there are often artefacts that are outside of the area of focus. It seems as thought the out of focus part is being encoded at a different bit rate, if that's possible, but that's the way it appears. I agree the BBC stuff is usually good when in HD.

    Most people with a 4k TV can't perceive the benefit, because they are not sitting close enough to notice the difference. I can't remember what it is off the top of my head, but there is a distance to screen size ratio where you get close enough to notice the artefacts on SD, and only then does HD become worth the extra cost, likewise with the step from HD to 4k. So I agree, part of it is people buying stuff they think is good but not really understanding it, which might not be a problem if everything on TV was already in 4k resolution. My projector screen is equivalent to a 95in TV, and I am only a few metres away, so I might appreciate 4k resolution, but apart from the huge cost to upgrade to a 4k projector, most of the stuff i'd be watching is still in HD.
    • CommentAuthorKenny_M
    • CommentTimeFeb 27th 2018
     
    Posted By: delpradoquite sinister that amazon did that if so.


    Pretty common practice for big companies to buy up another one for their client base then shut down the service. Happens a lot with software apps in particular.
    • CommentAuthortorrent99
    • CommentTimeFeb 28th 2018
     
    To be fair I think LoveFilm would have died anyway. That whole model of ordering a DVD, waiting for it to arrive, watching it and then posting it back, is just too much hassle for most people who want instant gratification.

    Funnly enough I think the Blockbuster model would have been better, a blockbuster evening was a bit of a cheap night out. Much more of an event than an Amazon rental.


    Re: People not sitting close enough, according to most websites I need to be sitting about 4ft away from my 1080p 32" TV to get the benefit! Not sure how many would be prepared to sit that close.
    • CommentAuthorKenny_M
    • CommentTimeFeb 28th 2018
     
    Posted By: torrent99To be fair I think LoveFilm would have died anyway.


    Not sure about that, cinema paradiso are still going strong (touch wood), picked up a few more customers when lovefilm was closed - although they are the last one left.


    Posted By: torrent99according to most websites I need to be sitting about 4ft away from my 1080p 32" TV to get the benefit! Not sure how many would be prepared to sit that close.


    This is the problem, most peoples room set ups mean that you would need to have at least around 40" screen to benefit from 1080p, and maybe 60" to benefit from 4k. When viewed 3 foot away in the shop they look amazing, but from 10 feet away in the house...
    • CommentAuthorborpin
    • CommentTimeFeb 28th 2018
     
    My take:

    Network:
    Whilst WiFi is fine in some instances, the more devices connecting to the Access Point, the lower the available bandwidth (I think it halves each time but could be wrong).

    Wired, I put in 2x CAT6 and twin RG6 into opposite corners of every room. I wan't that far out. All back to a single cabinet so can be wired as necessary from a switch.

    Put the ISP Router into the master socket and patch through on the ethernet side for no discernable loss in speed/performance.

    Next time I would hard wire in a proper AP (like you see in offices).

    Satellite dish - bought one plus a suitable splitter/booster for a 4 wire LNB but never mounted the dish (cables in place). SkyQ dishes are not compatible with Freeview (different LNB). DAB TV is actually all you need (fitted a

    Power - an under discussed topic IMHO.

    Friend in France has built a house - single cables (rather than T&E) in plastic flexible conduit is the norm over there all wired in a radial setup. This is what I would do next time.

    I don't understand why socket makers have not embraced the wago style of fitting wires. Would make life so much simpler.
    • CommentAuthorDarylP
    • CommentTimeMar 1st 2018
     
    .. also the french (and others?) are moving towards tool-free installation, spring-loaded contacts a la Wago... :bigsmile:
    • CommentAuthorgyrogear
    • CommentTimeMar 1st 2018
     
    Yes, but they take up more room when renovating...

    gg
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeMar 1st 2018
     
    Posted By: DarylP.. also the french (and others?) are moving towards tool-free installation, spring-loaded contacts a la Wago..
    Posted By: gyrogearYes, but they take up more room when renovating...

    Have either of you got any photos or links to data sheets,please. I'm curious about their design.
    • CommentAuthorgyrogear
    • CommentTimeMar 1st 2018
     
    Well, not without opening up my walls !

    However, there's a video here: note various types of Wago...

    https://www.installation-renovation-electrique.com/connecter-deconnecter-un-wago-video/

    On the simple type, to remove a wire, you have to rotate it.
    Otherwise, on the big version, just lift the locking tab.
    The luminaire version takes rigid wires on one side, and flex wires on the other.
    (I actually did go and open up two x J-boxes, but I got the wrong ones, they have "dominos", so will have another dig around tomorrow mebbe...).

    gg
    • CommentAuthorDarylP
    • CommentTimeMar 1st 2018
     
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeMar 2nd 2018
     
    Yes, I know what Wago connectors are. What I have never seen are Wago-like connectors as part of a socket-outlet. Presumably some type of CEE 7?
    • CommentAuthorDarylP
    • CommentTimeMar 4th 2018
     
    http://docdif.fr.grpleg.com/general/MEDIAGRP/NP-FT-GT/F02152FR-02.pdf

    Difficult to see, you just push conductors into receptacles, these have levers that you have to depress to remove conductors.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeMar 4th 2018
     
    Thanks Daryl. They look neat.
    • CommentAuthorrevor
    • CommentTimeMar 4th 2018
     
    When you mentioned these Wago type connectors on sockets I reckon they would be bulky as with a standard uk socket with screw terminals you can accommodate at least 3 x 2. 5 conductors whilst each hole in a Wago can only accommodate the 1 conductor. The continental socket dimensional drawing shows the depth as 42 mm so a very deep back box needed whilst a conventional 13 A uk socket will fit in a 25 mm back box. But it would be good to have similar terminals on uk sockets as sometimes it can be awkward to get screw terminals to grab the conductor before the conductor decides to walk out. If you have not used Wago connectors give them a try they are so easy to use though I prefer the lever activated ones. Coupled with the junction box they constitute a maintenance free (MF) junction box that complies with the 17th Edition of the Electrical Regs
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeMar 4th 2018
     
    Posted By: revorWhen you mentioned these Wago type connectors on sockets I reckon they would be bulky as with a standard uk socket with screw terminals you can accommodate at least 3 x 2. 5 conductors whilst each hole in a Wago can only accommodate the 1 conductor. The continental socket dimensional drawing shows the depth as 42 mm so a very deep back box needed whilst a conventional 13 A uk socket will fit in a 25 mm back box.

    True but you have to remember that the UK is fairly unique in having ring circuits that need multiple wires in a socket. In other countries where the ambiguity is avoided and radial connections are normal, there's only one wire needed.
  2.  
    Posted By: revorI reckon they would be bulky as with a standard uk socket with screw terminals you can accommodate at least 3 x 2. 5 conductors whilst each hole in a Wago can only accommodate the 1 conductor.

    The Legrand sockets (and switches) they use over here can accommodate 2 wires on each terminal, each with its own connector socket.

    Oh and no ring mains over here, it is all radial usually fused (MCB) with a 16A breaker but sometimes 25A. More than 16A is usually a dedicated circuit
  3.  
    Unless you run a cable from every single socket to a central location (in which case you would have an almighty great junction box there) you still have an in and out cable on a Radial circuit on all but the last socket.
    • CommentAuthorDarylP
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2018
     
    yes, that is how the LeGrand stuff works... IN and OUT all the way to the last, where IN only.
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