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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
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    • CommentAuthorandyman99
    • CommentTimeApr 3rd 2018 edited
     
    Is there any reason why this couldn't be used for internal wall insulation? I'm thinking in terms of not meeting fire regulations or something else that would make it against Building regs. I appreciate EWI is a favoured solution.

    https://www.jablite.co.uk/application/jabfloor/

    I understand that some EPS has a stronger loading capacity for use under floors, but are there any other differences?
    • CommentAuthorjfb
    • CommentTimeApr 3rd 2018
     
    there are issues with electrics and eps (though possibly more of a theoretical risk than actual?) - the eps can affect the cable sheathing
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeApr 3rd 2018 edited
     
    Manufacturers make it obscure these days, giving info by wall, floor, roof etc, not making clear which variant of the product for each and why, properties-wise - may well be same item. May need to dig deep, research Google. Used to be, all were tabulated together, with properties comparison, thicknesses available etc.
    • CommentAuthorgoodevans
    • CommentTimeApr 3rd 2018
     
    I'm not sure I would use it as iwi - I think the main reason for me is the fumes it would five off in a fire. On the otherhand celotex is used internally - but I don't know what that does in a fire.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeApr 3rd 2018
     
    Posted By: goodevansOn the otherhand celotex is used internally - but I don't know what that does in a fire.

    That's what was on the outside of Grenfell, no?
    • CommentAuthorgoodevans
    • CommentTimeApr 3rd 2018
     
    I could be wrong - I believe Grenfell had a polyethylene core to it's cladding, but Celotex may have been involved in its manufacture.

    I should have been more specific in that internal wall insulation from Celotex I believe has either a PUR or PIR core. How these materials compare to EPS in their response to fire I can not help.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeApr 3rd 2018
     
    Not the cladding, the insulation!

    and ..
    Posted By: goodevansinternal wall insulation from Celotex I believe has either a PUR or PIR core. How these materials compare to EPS in their response to fire I can not help.

    much worse is the answer.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeApr 4th 2018
     
    There are probably millions of floating floors on eps in the UK standard grade is OK graphite preferred
    • CommentAuthorandyman99
    • CommentTimeApr 4th 2018
     
    One local Builders merchant has a reasonable price on Jablite/Jabfloor but they dont have any EPS stated as suitable for wall insulation. There does appear to be EPS specifically marketed for IWI, I just wondered if anyone knew if there was any real differences I needed to worry about. I have tried to find out online, but can't really see a definitive answer.
    • CommentAuthorgravelld
    • CommentTimeApr 4th 2018
     
    I think the main reason Celotex and the like are used is because of reducing the impact to liveable space.

    DYOR, but if space wasn't a problem I'd prefer thicker EPS.
  1.  
    I think surface spread of flame is your main concern.

    On the assumption you would be boarding out (rather than just painting/plastering over), any impact issues would be negated and you can probably argue that plasterboard gives you some protection against the fire spread too. One to talk over with Building Control though.
    • CommentAuthorhairydude
    • CommentTimeApr 5th 2018
     
    MY tuppenceworth:

    I used EPS insulation over the inside of my timber frame, then VCL, battened service void and plasterboard. Building control were fine with this as the plasterboard provides 30mins fire protection to escape the house (and the other foam insulation boards are equally nasty when burning). This was a 2 storey domestic house.

    On a practical note screwing the battens through the EPS into the studs with long screws was a pain as the EPS does compress more than PIR / PUR so you could 'pull' the battens into the EPS if you weren't paying attention. For me the cost saving over KIngspan, etc made sense but a paid contractor would probably get frustrated.

    I used EPS70 graphite but with hindsight a higher compressive strength EPS should resist compression better.
  2.  
    Posted By: hairydudescrewing the battens through the EPS into the studs with long screws was a pain


    We're about to do this on our roof and our engineer specified 'Thor Helical Nails' which are distributed by Ancon. We built a mock-up and the screw thread does help to stop the EPS from compressing so much. You basically just hammer the end in and it drives the screw thread around - there's an 'applicator' which helps to stop it bending as you go.

    Probably not the cheapest way to do it but it seems to work fairly well and will hopefully spare some of the pain.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeApr 5th 2018
     
    Posted By: hairydudeyou could 'pull' the battens into the EPS if you weren't paying attention

    Just set the torque limiter on the drill/driver to a suitably low value?
    • CommentAuthorbhommels
    • CommentTimeApr 5th 2018 edited
     
    Posted By: Doubting_Thomas
    Posted By: hairydudescrewing the battens through the EPS into the studs with long screws was a pain

    We're about to do this on our roof and our engineer specified 'Thor Helical Nails' which are distributed by Ancon.
    ...
    Probably not the cheapest way to do it but it seems to work fairly well and will hopefully spare some of the pain.

    I used these (supplied by twistfix.co.uk) to fix the counterbattens on the warm roof. As I had to use long lengths I did not find it easy to drive these in and hit the joist underneath and not buckle the fixing in the process. OTOH not many were needed and once it is fixed it seems very solid. Just a different sort of pain I guess.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeApr 5th 2018
     
    Don't they supply a mandrell that holds it dead square and resists bucking?
    • CommentAuthorandyman99
    • CommentTimeApr 5th 2018 edited
     
    Posted By: hairydudeMY tuppenceworth:

    I used EPS insulation over the inside of my timber frame, then VCL, battened service void and plasterboard. Building control were fine with this as the plasterboard provides 30mins fire protection to escape the house (and the other foam insulation boards are equally nasty when burning). This was a 2 storey domestic house.


    Thanks HD, just what I was hoping to hear.
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